Astros sign stealing suspensions

[packs]

Throwing a spitball and using your entire clubhouse to cheat are very different scenarios. People want the Astros punished as a team and the players on that team punished for their behavior as a team. If you want to say Drysdale should be punished now for throwing a spitball, that's fair. But what similarities are you trying to draw between one individual player throwing an illegal pitch and an entire team conspiring to use technology to steal signs and it's own players to relay that information to a batter in real time?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Throwing a spitball and using your entire clubhouse to cheat are very different scenarios. People want the Astros punished as a team and the players on that team punished for their behavior as a team. If you want to say Drysdale should be punished now for throwing a spitball, that's fair. But what similarities are you trying to draw between one individual player throwing an illegal pitch and an entire team conspiring to use technology to steal signs and it's own players to relay that information to a batter in real time?

Cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter if it's an individual effort or a team effort - either way, it's done for the benefit of the team - not the individual. You can spin it however you wish.

[packs]

It's not a spin, it's what happened.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

It's not a spin, it's what happened.

I'm not denying that's what happened. You are correct.

The spin comes when you try to justify cheating based on the number of individuals involved. Once again, cheating is cheating no matter if it's an individual effort or a team effort. The intent of the cheating is still the same - to give your team an advantage.

[packs]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not denying that's what happened. You are correct.

The spin comes when you try to justify cheating based on the number of individuals involved. Once again, cheating is cheating no matter if it's an individual effort or a team effort. The intent of the cheating is still the same - to give your team an advantage.

I don't think I'm the one justifying cheating. And I can't help but see a difference between the actions of an individual and the coordinated actions of an entire team.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

And I can't help but see a difference between the actions of an individual and the coordinated actions of an entire team.

You're focusing on the actions, disregarding the intent. The intent in either case (cheating as an individual or cheating as a team) is the same - to give your team an advantage to win the game.

The number of individuals who participate is irrelevant, whether it's one player or an entire team. Cheating is cheating whether is an individual effort or a team effort. You win as a team, you lose as a team.

And it's fine if you don't see a difference. We can disagree.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You're focusing on the actions, disregarding the intent. The intent in either case (cheating as an individual or cheating as a team) is the same - to give your team an advantage to win the game.

The number of individuals who participate is irrelevant, whether it's one player or an entire team. Cheating is cheating whether is an individual effort or a team effort. You win as a team, you lose as a team.

And it's fine if you don't see a difference. We can disagree.

I'm anti-Astros on this topic, but your point is fair and reasonable.

In track and field, if one member of running relay team is found to have used steroids, the entire team is disqualified because the steroid-user was an inherent part of the team, it's time and win. Some in the peanut gallery will object and say the other three members of the team should be able to keep their Gold Medal because only one was found to have cheated, but that's now it works.