Jackie Robinson/Willie Mays

[Volod]

What an historical difference three months made in 1947.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Volod

What an historical difference three months made in 1947.

I've thought about this quite often. And Doby was in the AL, playing in parks and cities that Jackie never visited. So even though he was three months later, he still was plowing ground that Jackie had never seen. Not meant at all to diminish what Jackie did, but Larry was right there beside him.

The same could be said for Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin. Neil happened to be the first one down the ladder (and not by happenstance), and those couple of minutes made all the difference in their legacies.

Take a poll and ask who was the second black player in the Majors, or who was the second man on the moon, and most folks won't have a clue.

Being first matters.

[Volod]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I've thought about this quite often. And Doby was in the AL, playing in parks and cities that Jackie never visited. So even though he was three months later, he still was plowing ground that Jackie had never seen. Not meant at all to diminish what Jackie did, but Larry was right there beside him.

The same could be said for Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin. Neil happened to be the first one down the ladder (and not by happenstance), and those couple of minutes made all the difference in their legacies.

Take a poll and ask who was the second black player in the Majors, or who was the second man on the moon, and most folks won't have a clue.

Being first matters.

I've also thought about it quite often, and the one factor that always stumps me is the NY aspect of it. Of course, it's entirely conjecture, but does anyone imagine that if Bill Veeck had brought Larry up at the same time Rickey elevated Jackie, their historical significance - not to mention their card values - would be equal today? Or do you think that if the Indians opened their season on a Tuesday and the Dodgers opened on the next day, it would be different today?

[JollyElm]

It certainly doesn't have the magnitude of the Jackie Robinson/Larry Doby story, but along with Armstrong/Aldrin, it reminds me of Ron Blomberg becoming the first designated hitter in MLB history (and his bat sent to Cooperstown). It was supposed to be Orlando Cepeda, but his game was rained out (I believe?), and the honor became Boomer's alone, making him the answer to a trivia question forevermore.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

It certainly doesn't have the magnitude of the Jackie Robinson/Larry Doby story, but along with Armstrong/Aldrin, it reminds me of Ron Blomberg becoming the first designated hitter in MLB history (and his bat sent to Cooperstown). It was supposed to be Orlando Cepeda, but his game was rained out (I believe?), and the honor became Boomer's alone, making him the answer to a trivia question forevermore.

The Yankees played at the Red Sox that day, Blomberg was batting sixth for the Yankees and Cepeda was batting fifth for the Red Sox. The Yankees scored three runs in the top of the first inning so Blomberg was able to bat before Cepeda, who didn't come up until the bottom of the second.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

The Yankees played at the Red Sox that day, Blomberg was batting sixth for the Yankees and Cepeda was batting fifth for the Red Sox. The Yankees scored three runs in the top of the first inning so Blomberg was able to bat before Cepeda, who didn't come up until the bottom of the second.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew it was some sort of a fluke occurrence (those 3 runs in the top of the first), but couldn't quite remember what it was. Awesome.

[Empty77]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

. . .Take a poll and ask who was the second black player in the Majors, or who was the second man on the moon, and most folks won't have a clue. . .

Disagree. Everyone knows the second one down was Buzz Lightyear.

[Uncle Miltie]

Larry Doby felt he was a better player than Jackie Robinson, and he was probably right. Others of the time shared his opinion as well, but Jackie was ex-military and a college man, which made him a better candidate for Branch Rickey. Larry Doby suffered greatly, perhaps as much Jackie Robinson, but in comparison he is not regarded in the same light. Almost all the Cleveland players did not want Larry on the team, especially Eddie Robinson whose behavior toward Doby during that season caused him to be traded the following year.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Uncle Miltie

Larry Doby felt he was a better player than Jackie Robinson, and he was probably right. Others of the time shared his opinion as well, but Jackie was ex-military and a college man, which made him a better candidate for Branch Rickey. Larry Doby suffered greatly, perhaps as much Jackie Robinson, but in comparison he is not regarded in the same light. Almost all the Cleveland players did not want Larry on the team, especially Eddie Robinson whose behavior toward Doby during that season caused him to be traded the following year.

I'm gonna have to side with Robinson again here. Both guys have very similar career offensive production, but Robinson was much better defensively than Doby, and Doby played mostly in his prime years in the majors (while Robinson was late 20s to late 30s then).

[Volod]

Cleveland curmudgeon that I am, I still ponder what the current discussion would sound like if Bill Veeck had been able to start the 1947 season with Larry Doby in centerfield for the Indians.