PWCC Auction Ending Tonight - Interesting Results

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Totally disagree. That's like saying the landlord in town who is ripping everyone off and got caught is going to come out of it stronger than ever after the DA is done subpoenaing them and crawling up their ass with a microscope. I guess if past history means absolutely nothing to people buying cards they will come out stronger.
Bottom line is very few if any of the cards they are selling can't be bought elsewhere.

One big note here is that PWCC has plenty of competition in several other auction houses. They always seemed to have 'nice stuff', but maybe that was because they were enabling the doctors to bring it to market. If that distinction of having the best stuff goes away, it would be easy for folks to walk away from PWCC. There is nothing to lose. And as soon as the buyers stop buying, the consignors will stop consigning.

PSA on the other hand, has very limited competition and unless another entrant stands up or SGC really steps up their game, that won't change. People have a lot of money on the line with the PSA entombed cards, and folks would lose a lot of money by moving from PSA.

I can see the scenario where PWCC takes a big hit but PSA keeps steam-rolling right along.

[Snapolit1]

Interesting to me how many 7 and 8s Goudeys and US Caramels and Cracker Jacks PWCC used to have compared to what they sell today. I would hate to look back 2 years and take a hard look at what they were selling back then. Every auction seemed to have 3 Gehrig Goudey 7s.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

One big note here is that PWCC has plenty of competition in several other auction houses. They always seemed to have 'nice stuff', but maybe that was because they were enabling the doctors to bring it to market. If that distinction of having the best stuff goes away, it would be easy for folks to walk away from PWCC. There is nothing to lose. And as soon as the buyers stop buying, the consignors will stop consigning.

PSA on the other hand, has very limited competition and unless another entrant stands up or SGC really steps up their game, that won't change. People have a lot of money on the line with the PSA entombed cards, and folks would lose a lot of money by moving from PSA.

I can see the scenario where PWCC takes a big hit but PSA keeps steam-rolling right along.

Lots of people are enabling card doctors to bring their material to market.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

One big note here is that PWCC has plenty of competition in several other auction houses. They always seemed to have 'nice stuff', but maybe that was because they were enabling the doctors to bring it to market. If that distinction of having the best stuff goes away, it would be easy for folks to walk away from PWCC. There is nothing to lose. And as soon as the buyers stop buying, the consignors will stop consigning.

PSA on the other hand, has very limited competition and unless another entrant stands up or SGC really steps up their game, that won't change. People have a lot of money on the line with the PSA entombed cards, and folks would lose a lot of money by moving from PSA.

I can see the scenario where PWCC takes a big hit but PSA keeps steam-rolling right along.

You’re spot on with your last part.

PSA is Teflon it doesn’t matter if they grade bad cards or not. The cards keep coming in for their opinion.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

One big note here is that PWCC has plenty of competition in several other auction houses. They always seemed to have 'nice stuff', but maybe that was because they were enabling the doctors to bring it to market. If that distinction of having the best stuff goes away, it would be easy for folks to walk away from PWCC. There is nothing to lose. And as soon as the buyers stop buying, the consignors will stop consigning.

Focusing on this portion of your response I would agree that the quickest change possible is possible here, but people have to vote with their cards and their cash.

If the cards start going to the REA's, Sterling's, LOTG's etc... the dollars will follow. Likewise if the dollars stop going to PWCC consignments the consignments will go elsewhere. This COULD be an incredibly quick process if ethics outweighed money and "stuff." Even here on Net54 which is pretty close to the epicenter of the scandal we have people still consigning and buying from bad actors. Every sale and consignment decreases the chance that the guilty parties have to find a new way to make a living.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Focusing on this portion of your response I would agree that the quickest change possible is possible here, but people have to vote with their cards and their cash.

If the cards start going to the REA's, Sterling's, LOTG's etc... the dollars will follow. Likewise if the dollars stop going to PWCC consignments the consignments will go elsewhere. This COULD be an incredibly quick process if ethics outweighed money and "stuff." Even here on Net54 which is pretty close to the epicenter of the scandal we have people still consigning and buying from bad actors. Every sale and consignment decreases the chance that the guilty parties have to find a new way to make a living.

Tell me, who are the good actors?

[Flintboy]

There are people who deal with others on this board with honesty and integrity. I consider them “good actors”.

There are people who have gone silent since this scandal has broke who used to post quite often on here........

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Tell me, who are the good actors?

I wasn't being cryptic I named three that seem like "good guys" to me and I'm sure there are others.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I wasn't being cryptic I named three that seem like "good guys" to me and I'm sure there are others.

You did better than Diogenes, he couldn't come up with one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In my opinion, I don't think it's reasonable or fair to expect people to take big hits to their livelihood in order to make a statement.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In my opinion, I don't think it's reasonable or fair to expect people to take big hits to their livelihood in order to make a statement.

I agree when talking about REAL tax paying honest dealers. BLEEP the dishonest dealers and the scabs that are not paying taxes that sell a lot of cards.

I am sure Bobby who sells a lot of cards is a honest licensed tax paying dealer because he would never be a criminal.

[edhans]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

.

Even here on Net54 which is pretty close to the epicenter of the scandal we have people still consigning and buying from bad actors.

Not to mention doing bulk submissions to PSA.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by edhans

Not to mention doing bulk submissions to PSA.

It’s all about the money....They still perceive PSA slabs around their cards will bring them more money when they sell.

PSA has a Teflon Business people flock to them it doesn’t matter how many altered cards they slab. Pop and Registry have them hooked like a trailer.

PSA has been smart having yet to address any of the underlying issues with their company grading tens of thousands of bad altered cards. They know people are hooked and many rely/need them for their business ....they won’t bite the hand that feeds them. This continues to prove itself day in and day out based on submission and altered cards in their holders showing up in the Major Auction Houses.
Right, Wrong or Indifferent........ PSA they’re here to stay only getting stronger.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

It’s all about the money....They still perceive PSA slabs around their cards will bring them more money when they sell.

PSA has a Teflon Business people flock to them it doesn’t matter how many altered cards they slab. Pop and Registry have them hooked like a trailer.

PSA has been smart having yet to address any of the underlying issues with their company grading tens of thousands of bad altered cards. They know people are hooked and many rely/need them for their business ....they won’t bite the hand that feeds them. This continues to prove itself day in and day out based on submission and altered cards in their holders showing up in the Major Auction Houses.
Right, Wrong or Indifferent........ PSA they’re here to stay only getting stronger.

I agree that PSA is getting stronger. A few months ago I was at a card show and I was looking at an SGC 30 T206 Walter Johnson. The seller was asking $450, and I thought that was a decent price, but I decided not to buy it. A couple of months later, I went to another show and looked up the dealer and asked him if he still had the Johnson, and I planned on buying it. However, he had sent it to PSA and it came back as a PSA 2. The dealer told me that now that it was in a PSA holder he was asking $650, so of course, I didn't buy it.

Same card, same grade, different grading company, but $200 higher asking price. As a buyer, that formula doesn't add up for me.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by edhans

Not to mention doing bulk submissions to PSA.

I don't trim my cards. I don't add color to my cards. Let's speak hypothetically. Because there are criminals living in my town, am I supposed to move?? Some of you really need to get off the holier than thou attitude.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't trim my cards. I don't add color to my cars. Because there are criminals living in my town, am I supposed to move?? Some of you really need to get off the holier than thou attitude.

People are nice enough to leave your silly thread alone you should do the same.

Do you support those criminals like you support PSA? Maybe you should pull your head out of the sand and see PSA is part of the problem and people like you who keep submitting to them are also part of the problem.

[bobbyw8469]

I never told Gary Moser to trim cards and make millions. Meanwhile, I am struggling to make $5-$10 flipping a card. Yet I am supposed to stop submitting my raw cards to PSA because of what Gary Moser did? The soapbox mentality of some of you get old.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I never told Gary Moser to trim cards and make millions. Meanwhile, I am struggling to make $5-$10 flipping a card. Yet I am supposed to stop submitting my raw cards to PSA because of what Gary Moser did? The soapbox mentality of some of you get old.

No, not "because of what Gary Moser did." Not at all. You stop submitting to PSA because of what PSA is accused of doing.

The point is that 'we', the community, not the lawyers, the courts or the FBI, can collectively decide the outcome of this by exercising our ability to choose who we want to deal with and who we don't.

It don't always agree with the reasoning or outcome, but this is happening everywhere we turn today. The press has even coined a term for it: 'Cancel Culture'.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

No, not "because of what Gary Moser did." Not at all. You stop submitting to PSA because of what PSA is accused of doing.

The point is that 'we', the community, not the lawyers, the courts or the FBI, can collectively decide the outcome of this by exercising our ability to choose who we want to deal with and who we don't.

It don't always agree with the reasoning or outcome, but this is happening everywhere we turn today. The press has even coined a term for it: 'Cancel Culture'.

The press itself has become 'Cancer Culture'

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't trim my cards. I don't add color to my cards. Let's speak hypothetically. Because there are criminals living in my town, am I supposed to move?? Some of you really need to get off the holier than thou attitude.

I agree with you on many aspects but let this thread be about bashing the bad apples lol you’re not one of them.
I have nothing against you for submitting to PSA I don’t think you’re the problem one bit :-)

My points in my previous post are direct,
to the point, and exactly what it is. That’s all I don’t begrudge anyone.

[pokerplyr80]

The attacks directed at Bobby are ridiculous. There are only 3 grading companies and they're all part of this scandal. Until someone decides to start a new company they're all we have. Many collectors, myself included, aren't going to start only buying raw cards.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The attacks directed at Bobby are ridiculous. There are only 3 grading companies and they're all part of this scandal. Until someone decides to start a new company they're all we have. Many collectors, myself included, aren't going to start only buying raw cards.

I dont agree with how bobby handles things in a lot of other areas for a number of reasons but in terms of submitting to PSA, attacking him for submitting to PSA is silly. Of course he and anyone who doesnt want to lose their shirt will submit to them. Unless others are going to pay our mortgages and kids tuition etc.

At least at this point, it is my understanding there have been no arrests and again, zero _________ (im sure you can fill in the blank) against PSA on this issue. (again correct me if i am wrong)

[edhans]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Some of you really need to get off the holier than thou attitude.

It's not a matter of holiness, Bobby. It's about principles. Your continued support of this company sends the message that their aiding and abetting the fraud being perpetrated on the hobby, not to mention the denial thereof, is a perfectly acceptable business practice.

[JackW]

Originally Posted by edhans

It's not a matter of holiness, Bobby. It's about principles. Your continued support of this company sends the message that their aiding and abetting the fraud being perpetrated on the hobby, not to mention the denial thereof, is a perfectly acceptable business practice.

Well said, Ed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by edhans

It's not a matter of holiness, Bobby. It's about principles. Your continued support of this company sends the message that their aiding and abetting the fraud being perpetrated on the hobby, not to mention the denial thereof, is a perfectly acceptable business practice.

Do you object to REA, Heritage, and every other auction house continuing to sell PSA graded cards?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do you object to REA, Heritage, and every other auction house continuing to sell PSA graded cards?

There's a difference between selling cards that are already slabbed, and continuing to send massive submissions to a known corrupt entity. The latter is far worse, IMO.

I do believe that the large auction houses should do more research to identify potentially tainted cards and not rely solely on the slab. I also believe they should ban consignments from known card doctors and questionable submitters.

I also believe (when a tainted card is outed) that they should reveal the names of the consignors... both to the Feds and publicly. These people need to be called out, similar to how auction houses publicly identify reneging bidders. Why they continue to protect criminal submitters/consignors is beyond me.

[edhans]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do you object to REA, Heritage, and every other auction house continuing to sell PSA graded cards?

I don't think we can condemn selling cards already in our possession. I have several myself. It's the continued enthusiastic support of PSA in the light of the recent disclosures that troubles me.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by edhans

Not to mention doing bulk submissions to PSA.

right, blithering morons who know about the billion $$$ scam but support it because they obviously lack education. It's absurd and laughable how people can turn a blind eye to an obvious scam. They can't stop popping. it's way too exciting to pop, I guess and spend there $$$ on idiotic things.

They will be eating cat food during retirement is my guess because they wasted their entire life without a backbone and floated aimlessly through life like a spineless amoeba.

Enjoy looking at your fake, made for slab cards, eating your cat food...

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

right, blithering morons who know about the billion $$$ scam but support it because they obviously lack education. It's absurd and laughable how people can turn a blind eye to an obvious scam. They can't stop popping. it's way too exciting to pop, I guess and spend there $$$ on idiotic things.

They will be eating cat food during retirement is my guess because they wasted their entire life without a backbone and floated aimlessly through life like a spineless amoeba.

Enjoy looking at your fake, made for slab cards, eating your cat food...

Cat Food ! I love your passion And Guess what others might be in denial, you sure as hell are not! You know how long and deep this goes back. I’d venture to say 30-50% of all early Tobacco cards in PSA holders have been worked on/altered.