Proof that the market value for PSA and 'conserved' cards have dropped

[steve B]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

I am going to be amazed if PSA doesn't already know how it is going to prevent previously-graded cards from ever being regraded without disclosure. Their business model cannot survive repeated outings ala Blowout IMO. They may continue to struggle to discern all doctoring, but once they grade a card, they must retain the ability to identify it if it comes in raw again.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Why would they change? They've already dodged all responsibility and deflected it all as just a bunch of whiners on the internet.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by steve B

Why would they change? They've already dodged all responsibility and deflected it all as just a bunch of whiners on the internet.

Much of it is now out of their control. BO is doing grading for them and their customers and the hobby at large, and collectors are now starting to consider PSA's grading differently and collect and valuate PSA cards differently. If BO exposure of bombshell and mundane cards continues, the hobby will have less and less confidence in PSA's grading abilities and the values for PSA graded cards will change.

I see a paradigm shift in the making. PSA sitting on their hands won't solve the problem and may exacerbate the problem if collectors and the hobby see them as dismissing and ignoring facts and problems. Why would the hobby trust or go to the grading/authenticity opinions of a service that dismisses facts that everyone sees. I think the horse has left the barn as far as PSA's "Move along, nothing to see here" philosophy goes.

At this point, I do not believe anyone with knowledge of this, including collectors who still collect and advocate for PSA, will buy and consider PSA cards in the same way as before. Even a PSA collector pausing or saying "let me double-check before I place a bid" or saying "I'll put off buying high-end cards until this settles" affects valuations and the hobby. Exuberant bidding and bidding psychology is an integral part of hobby pricing and bidding, and a slight tapping on the break or "Let me think about this first" affects things.

I also think a good number of big spenders are going to change, and likely have changed, their buying, there likely will some big exposures in major auctions, and some Registry folks will likely quit buying high end cards. If, for example, you've had several of your five or more figure cards identified as condition fakes now worth a small fraction of the value, it's going to make you pause if not quit. I don't care how much money you have, and who's going to invest in that system?

All you have to do is to go to PSA's own forum, full of PSA homers and advocates who have posted they are either not buying high end graded cards or at least pausing their buying. It's already affected their buying and valuation/consideration of PSA cards-- and that's PSA's home field.

Duly note that posters on PSA's board were as disappointed with Joe. O's "Learn to live with it, quit whining" letter as anywhere else. They are PSA fans, but see a major problem and want PSA to fix or seriously address it.

The funny thing is there likely will be a buyer's renaissance for early GAI cards. They were long left for dead, but now aren't looking so bad, at least in comparison.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by drcy

Much of it is now out of their control. BO is doing grading for them and their customers and the hobby at large, and collectors are now starting to consider PSA's grading differently and collect and valuate PSA cards differently. If BO exposure of bombshell and mundane cards continues, the hobby will have less and less confidence in PSA's grading abilities and the values for PSA graded cards will change.

I see a paradigm shift in the making. PSA sitting on their hands won't solve the problem and may exacerbate the problem if collectors and the hobby see them as dismissing and ignoring facts and problems. Why would the hobby trust or go to the grading/authenticity opinions of a service that dismisses facts that everyone sees. I think the horse has left the barn as far as PSA's "Move along, nothing to see here" philosophy goes.

I think the prices will change. Maybe slowly as the people with enough money to make buys that set prices figure it out.

I don't think PSA will change.
Or SGC, Or Beckett. They're all in the same group as far as I'm concerned.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by steve B

Why would they change? They've already dodged all responsibility and deflected it all as just a bunch of whiners on the internet.

Which should lead any rational person with the conclusion that they don't want to change or acknowledge what they are doing.

That is the #1 thing that let's me know that they are privy to the scam and probably in on it themselves. Trying to sweep it under the rug is not a good look, IMHO but people continue to eat them up in a love fest. Are people really that dopey? I personally have never seen anything like it in my lifetime yet others could care less. THAT's what I find fascinating.

Maybe, just maybe time will tell?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Going to say "Show me the carDfax'

Any accidents? I mean trimming. When did this card/car change hands. What auctions were they sold at

Ok guys what would the CardFox look like? Maybe wearing a cardigan sweater and smoking pipe?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Going to say "Show me the carDfax'

Any accidents? I mean trimming. When did this card/car change hands. What auctions were they sold at

Ok guys what would the CardFox look like? Maybe wearing a cardigan sweater and smoking pipe?

shockingly...cardfax type service is actually a good idea.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

shockingly...cardfax type service is actually a good idea.

one of many , its a long list

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

one of many , its a long list

r they all "lifted" from other people?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

r they all "lifted" from other people?

nah thats deceptive .i dont say other ideas are my own or make a listing on ebay that desceptive..


'Show me the carDfax'

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Which should lead any rational person with the conclusion that they don't want to change or aknowlede what they are doing.

That is the #1 thing that let's me know that they are privy to the scam and probably in on it themselves. Trying to sweep it under the rug is not a good look, IMHO but people continue to eat them up in a love fest. Are people really that dopey? I personally have never seen anything like it in my lifetime yet other could care less. THAT's what I find fascinating.

Maybe, just maybe time will tell?

Chuck the only cards I would consider buying is one from raw virgin collections. Never graded with no vcp history.

Ahh the days are long over right sir !

Was a lot of fun

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Which should lead any rational person with the conclusion that they don't want to change or acknowledge what they are doing.

That is the #1 thing that let's me know that they are privy to the scam and probably in on it themselves. Trying to sweep it under the rug is not a good look, IMHO but people continue to eat them up in a love fest. Are people really that dopey? I personally have never seen anything like it in my lifetime yet others could care less. THAT's what I find fascinating.

Maybe, just maybe time will tell?

I've seen worse. Not as widespread, but worse.
The ritual satanic abuse panics of the late 80's- early 90's, where people were convicted on testimony that was often wildly absurd.
And which probably ended up making some real but less wildly insane acts go unpunished.