PWCC Auction Ending Tonight - Interesting Results

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I need to agree with Leon on this one. The BSW cards have provenance...if one wants to purchase a high grade card, now more than ever provenance is important. My reason for picking one up while I was able. And yes, I think close to 40k in the next non-PWCC auctions for a PSA 9...I think the average sale for BSF 9s is in the 35k to 38k range based on past PSA 9 sales.

Ethan, with all respect, and I'm not trying to harsh your buzz, but the card went for under 21K because that's what it's worth. Maybe on a good day it's worth 25K? Had your SGC 9.5 been won in a bidding war I'd tend to have more empathy for your argument but you were the only one who bid on it -- for a reason. No one else wanted it at 36K -- for a reason. Unlike you, additionally, I have no personal financial bias for my argument, i.e. I wasn't the sole bidder on the card which makes up the bulk of my collection.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Ethan, with all respect, and I'm not trying to harsh your buzz, but the card went for under 21K because that's what it's worth.

That may be what people here are saying. In this hobby, cards often don't sell, or "sell", for what they are worth.

I haven't trusted, or at least take with a large grain of salt, hobby "final prices realized at auction" for a long, long time. Beyond artificially raised prices due to shilling and valuations based on these artificially high or false prices, we all know that VCP and other 'price realized' lists include "sales" where there was no sale. And, with the current scandal, the hobby is realizing that, even if there was a sale, they can't even be sure what was sold-- though they sometimes find out the next week on BO.

Fake cards, or fake grade cards as in the case of the current scandal, can affect the market values of the cards that are known and proven to be real. Fro Joy Ruths are perhaps the best example. We know which Fro Joy Ruths are genuine, but all the past confusion has been "institutionalized" into the book and market prices. When sellers have to give each every potential bidder a history lesson, two-page essay and links to further reading to explain that "this PSA 9 is considered genuine but those others we don't know about and some are probably false and, to be candid, there are serious and widespread questions in the hobby as to whether PSA can even identify if a card is altered or not," the market value for PSA 9s across the board will be affected.

[Rhotchkiss]

Let’s get back to the generally low prices of the pwcc auction and off the specific e98 Cobb.

Jeff, I just shot you an email on a totally unrelated (fun card stuff) matter.

[calvindog]

David, fake sales prices are usually high ones, not low ones like the E98 last night.

And Ethan, no, I think the PSA 9 that sold last night is authentic. I just think high end E98s are not for everyone with money because of the huge populations in high grades. It's just not that special a card to everyone for that reason. The important thing is you love your card and that's all that should matter, no need to flog it here.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

David, fake sales prices are usually high ones, not low ones like the E98 last night.

That's exactly what I said (or implied).

The strikingly low auction price(s) may be because it's a real, honest sale without the common hobby "bells and whistles" (euphemism).

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Let’s get back to the generally low prices of the pwcc auction and off the specific e98 Cobb.

Jeff, I just shot you an email on a totally unrelated (fun card stuff) matter.

Exactly...... the tide is turning over there.... the so called market, developed by them, in the general/grand scheme of things is set up perfectly for a major pull back.......

[RedsFan1941]

expect more black swamp cards to hit the market for the first time in the coming months and years. this isn’t an opinion. it doesn’t question the authenticity of any of the bsf cards. it just means they are many more of them than was disclosed at the time of the find. nothing wrong with that either.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

expect more black swamp cards to hit the market for the first time in the coming months and years. this isn’t an opinion. it doesn’t question the authenticity of any of the bsf cards. it just means they are many more of them than was disclosed at the time of the find. nothing wrong with that either.

I have heard the same thing, that the family, or perhaps it was only some family members, held a large portion back. I guess these finds can be a double edged sword. I recall there was a huge find of high number 52 Bowmans at one point that drove prices way down.

[LincolnVT]

My understanding is that all BSF cards have now been graded by SGC or PSA. There was another wave of them -- I believe from a family member that held their portion of the cards back. That said, some BSF cards (like others) will move back and forth from SGC and PSA holders. If you think about it, the high grade E98 cards, even post BSF are quite rare compared to many collectible issues out there.

It will be interesting to see how PWCC auctions fair in the coming months.