USA TODAY article regarding FBI subpoenas, doctoring, etc......

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Al. a decade after this meeting, I guess the conclusion is inevitable -- collectors as a whole don't really want the hobby clean. Even less so now that so many are investors. And as a whole (with some notable exceptions such as yourself), the industry doesn't want to clean itself up either. I should just give up my own meager efforts because the windmill is going to win. Thanks for the perspective, sobering but necessary.

I disagree with this. I do think they want the hobby cleaned up. The problem is the ability to detect alterations. Once there is a company that can do this at a high rate, I think buyers will want their cards to be inspected upon purchase. Cash is king and the buyers hold all the power. Once altered cards can no longer be sold to buyers, only then will things change for the better.

[Johnny630]

Speaking as a tiny money guy if I was a Big Money Investor and I was planning on dipping into this Industry after after having studied the last 30 years of the hobby I would believe all the big money in this industry has already been made .....meaning forget it invest in muni bonds lmao

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

I disagree with this. I do think they want the hobby cleaned up. The problem is the ability to detect alterations. Once there is a company that can do this at a high rate, I think buyers will want their cards to be inspected upon purchase. Cash is king and the buyers hold all the power. Once altered cards can no longer be sold to buyers, only then will things change for the better.

The word is now widespread that TPGs either suck at detecting alterations or they're turning a blind eye. Has it impacted sales substantially? Or are people still buying like rabbits on Viagra?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The word is now widespread that TPGs either suck at detecting alterations or they're turning a blind eye. Has it impacted sales substantially? Or are people still buying like rabbits on Viagra?

Sadly people are still blindingly buying like rabbits on viagra it’s gonna crash just not yet but predict it will

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The word is now widespread that TPGs either suck at detecting alterations or they're turning a blind eye. Has it impacted sales substantially? Or are people still buying like rabbits on Viagra?

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Sadly people are still blindingly buying like rabbits on viagra it’s gonna crash just not yet but predict it will

I sincerely hope it is going to crash and all the bad people will disappear.

In reality I see absolutely nothing happening. Like has been posted it is all about the $. Nothing happened in any case I can think of. A few idiots got out after the Mastro debacle. The smart scum that gave the collectors the big FU are bigger now than before Mastro got lightly slapped on his fingers.

As far as PSA, they have gave the big FU to collectors for years. The dumb collectors line up and say "please sir can I have another".

I am at the point I couldn't care less about the dumb lemmings.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I sincerely hope it is going to crash and all the bad people will disappear.

In reality I see absolutely nothing happening. Like has been posted it is all about the $. Nothing happened in any case I can think of. A few idiots got out after the Mastro debacle. The smart scum that gave the collectors the big FU are bigger now than before Mastro got lightly slapped on his fingers.

As far as PSA, they have gave the big FU to collectors for years. The dumb collectors line up and say "please sir can I have another".

I am at the point I couldn't care less about the dumb lemmings.

It would have to tank really far for the bad people to abandon it.
There were altered cards, and outright fakes in 1977-78 when I first got involved in anything besides buying packs.
71 Topps got recolored when they were 10 cents each.
The fake I bought at my first show was a whole $2. And there were no computer printers or copy machines that could do a good enough job, so it was press printed, which isn't a trivial effort.

I can't see things tanking that far.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

It would have to tank really far for the bad people to abandon it.
There were altered cards, and outright fakes in 1977-78 when I first got involved in anything besides buying packs.
71 Topps got recolored when they were 10 cents each.
The fake I bought at my first show was a whole $2. And there were no computer printers or copy machines that could do a good enough job, so it was press printed, which isn't a trivial effort.

I can't see things tanking that far.

Me either but we can always hope.

I hope Peter, the BO guys, and everyone else keeps up the fight.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Me either but we can always hope.

I hope Peter, the BO guys, and everyone else keeps up the fight.

Agree ! Peter and BO have done a great job among many others on this board who call out all the crap. I feel beaten down and depressed about it but I won’t stop calling it for what it is !

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The word is now widespread that TPGs either suck at detecting alterations or they're turning a blind eye. Has it impacted sales substantially? Or are people still buying like rabbits on Viagra?

No, Yes. But...…...let's see how the picture changes if/when this new TPG comes into being.

The situation reminds me in a way of something my company encounters with commercial real estate. The parking lots are meant for customers and employees. No overnight parking is allowed. Both of these rules used to be blatantly flouted despite signage and leaflets announcing violators will be towed. Then one day/night we started towing. From that point on the rules were followed.

The point is that talk is cheap. And that includes talk about this new fantastic TPG on the horizon. But IMO the actions people are taking now are not necessarily indicative of how they will act once the circumstances change -- which in the case of this hobby is a TPG that will allow a prospective buyer to know if the card is altered.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Corey I hope you're right. That said, I think TPGs are at least capable of doing a much better job now. The incentives apparently lie in not doing so.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Corey I hope you're right. That said, I think TPGs are at least capable of doing a much better job now. The incentives apparently lie in not doing so.

Clearly PSA has no incentive. Why would they want to create a method that if successful in detectng alterations would result in a flood of claims under their grading guarantee?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Clearly PSA has no incentive. Why would they want to create a method that if successful in detectng alterations would result in a flood of claims under their grading guarantee?

No, I mean no incentive to grade properly now. Their incompetence, or blind eye, or worse, are feeding the machine.

[benjulmag]

They're making money hand over fist. Why change if via their registry they are the main player in town? Not to mention that any change that doesn't introduce new technological methods to detect alterations will cost them on their bottom line via the need to spend more time examining each submission.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by rats60

I disagree with this. I do think they want the hobby cleaned up. The problem is the ability to detect alterations. Once there is a company that can do this at a high rate, I think buyers will want their cards to be inspected upon purchase. Cash is king and the buyers hold all the power. Once altered cards can no longer be sold to buyers, only then will things change for the better.

Regarding their inability to detect alterations...

True in most cases, but I think there's more going on. Many of those trimmed cards are ridiculously short in their holders, and are so obviously trimmed. The amount of air space between the cards' borders and the "frame" is astounding, and there's no explanation as to why those cards passed. Some of the re-touched and re-colored cards are obvious upon first glance. Countless examples of amateurish restoration.

I could go on and on, but bottom-line is that PSA is either...

A. Spending no time inspecting these
B. Is incompetent to perform the one thing they're supposed to do
C. Is granting favorable grades to certain entities
D. Is simply turning a blind eye in many cases

It can only be one, or a mixture of all 4 of the reasons above. And none of those reasons bode well for them. I know that the registry crowd and heavily-invested client base will continue to support them, regardless. But the rest of us should take a stand.

Sorry to ramble, and didn't mean to nitpick the quoted post, as I agree with everything else that was said. But if PSA would just address the damned issue head-on and admit some level of responsibility, it might represent a good start towards fixing this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In a world when in the middle of this unprecedented scandal Steve Sloan can get up in front of the PSA community and not even mention it, that should tell us something.