Today's Wash. Post has major piece re the BB card fraud

[bobfreedman]

Jeff, I do understand why you did what you did in taking this case but what I do not think is Kosher is that you have created a market for yourself by being the loudest and complaining about what Brent did as loud as anyone on this board. You essentially raised it to the level (along with others) that it demanded attention and then took the case. How is this ethical?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Jeff, I do understand why you did what you did in taking this case but what I do not think is Kosher is that you have created a market for yourself by being the loudest and complaining about what Brent did as loud as anyone on this board. You essentially raised it to the level (along with others) that it demanded attention and then took the case. How is this ethical?

So you think the only reason I complained loudly for years about these issues is because I was hoping to force a case to myself that would increase my income by a percentage point or two — and open myself up to constant criticism? That must have also been the reason I sued Mastro - to get them to hire me hopefully. And what other cases have I taken in which I criticized someone’s behavior in the hobby only to represent them later? Can you tell me one?

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

So you think the only reason I complained loudly for years about these issues is because I was hoping to force a case to myself that would increase my income by a percentage point or two — and open myself up to constant criticism? That must have also been the reason I sued Mastro - to get them to hire me hopefully. And what other cases have I taken in which I criticized someone’s behavior in the hobby only to represent them later? Can you tell me one?

It only takes one time

Nowhere did I say that is why you did it either.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

So you think the only reason I complained loudly for years about these issues is because I was hoping to force a case to myself that would increase my income by a percentage point or two — and open myself up to constant criticism? That must have also been the reason I sued Mastro - to get them to hire me hopefully. And what other cases have I taken in which I criticized someone’s behavior in the hobby only to represent them later? Can you tell me one?

Jeff, I'm not accusing you of anything, but a person with very little imagination could dream up a scenario where you went after Mastro BECAUSE he didn't hire you and Brent isn't making the same mistake. I'm not even remotely saying this is what happened, but I imagine you have met people in your career that might try something like that.

The problem is if it's possible, people jump to probable and beyond. It doesn't help that the rumor mill has been pretty accurate a number of times already in this whole mess.

I really hope your presence in this mess helps the victims, I can't say that I hope your presence helps the perpetrators though, that would be disingenuous.

[blametony]

Jeffrey,

Just my 2¢

What I'm most intrigued by, and am curious about your opinion of, is Brent's assertions that "conservation" is perfectly acceptable in the hobby as he correlates it to the art world. This entire premise is ridiculous. Fine art works are inherently unique, 1 of 1 pieces. In that regard, condition and conservation of that condition are not as taboo. Graded Sportscards, by definition, are a world of comparison where the condition of one card can be exponentially greater than another simply based on condition. The "conservation" of that card then comes into question as it relates to the other cards in existence that have not been "conserved".

I understand he is in self-preservation mode at the moment, but by uttering complete nonsense like he did with the above simply makes him look ridiculous and minimizes any other argument he puts forth in his defense.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Kudos Tony for the best explanation I've seen to date of why card conservation/restoration/alteration and art C/R/A are two different things.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There is an even simpler difference. Art is restored/conserved to preserve it for posterity and the work is disclosed. Baseball cards are restored to deceive, in nearly all cases, without disclosure.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There is an even simpler difference. Art is restored/conserved to preserve it for posterity and the work is disclosed. Baseball cards are restored to deceive, in nearly all cases, without disclosure.

I work in the art and artifacts world, and know people who collect movie posters where restoration/conservation is more accepted.

The constant in all these areas is that any alterations have to be disclosed. In the movie memorabilia and fine art paintings hobbies, lack of disclosure would be considered as unethical as in the baseball card hobby.

Why? Because even in the art and movie memorabilia areas, restoration and conservation affect the financial value. A restored to Near Mint movie poster may be more accepted, normal and collected, but the unrestored Near Mint movie poster is still worth more. So lack of disclosure with a movie poster would just as much be considered fraud as with a baseball card.

Also, while restoration may be more accepted and normal, there are still many art and movie memorabilia collectors who are only interested in, or most interested in, unrestored items. It's certainly not the case that "all art and movie posters collectors" are fine with restoration.

And in some areas, such as ancient American Indian arrowheads and stone knives and axes, the collectors/hobby are even more anti-alteration than in the baseball card hobby.

But the constant in all the areas is the word "disclosure."

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Jeff, I do understand why you did what you did in taking this case but what I do not think is Kosher is that you have created a market for yourself by being the loudest and complaining about what Brent did as loud as anyone on this board. You essentially raised it to the level (along with others) that it demanded attention and then took the case. How is this ethical?

perfectly ethical. It's just a complete cornholing F/U to the entire hobby and everyone in it, that's all.

[Republicaninmass]

Its poetic justice at its finest