Today's Wash. Post has major piece re the BB card fraud

[ruth-gehrig]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Agree Sir. I'm also very thankful for Jeffrey's response. Class Act

Why wouldn't or shouldn't he reply? He's being paid by Brent to do damage control!

[drcy]

One note is that everyone deserves a good defense attorney no matter who they are-- even El Chapo and Jeffrey Dahmer. Saying otherwise is to say all charges are always correct, one side gets lawyers and the other does not, and we can/should determine guilt even before a trial. Everyone also deserves a competent physician when sick or injured-- including those who, unlike Brent, actually have been convicted and are in prison.

If Jeffrey L., or any other defense lawyer, serves as a lawyer for PWCC, El Chapo, Charles Manson or Bernie Madoff, there is absolutely nothing wrong about that.

And, no, I'm not equating PWCC with Jeffrey Dahmer and Charles Mason

[CrackaJackKid]

After all that bashing time after time and now you’re representing him? Am I in the twilight zone?!?!?. 🤦*♂️

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Why wouldn't or shouldn't he reply? He's being paid by Brent to do damage control!

Actually, Brent is unaware that I'm even posting here today. I don't have to provide a single iota of information to the people here -- Brent's issues are with the government first and foremost. I'm posting because I think it's the right thing to do and I'd like to clean up as much of this mess as possible and provide some clarity. I've helped the feds on any number of hobby fraud cases and will continue to do so. I've successfully sued Mastro and Allen and collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from them and their co-conspirators whereas the government collected $0 in restitution from them. I'm hardly coming on here and spinning some bullshit to help Brent out.

[drcy]

Though it is kind of funny if Brent said "Uh oh. I'm in such big trouble that I'd better get El Chapo's lawyer."

Though, obviously, Jeffrey has knowledge of this particular hobby, which it seems is what one would want for a lawyer on either side. You don't want to hire a lawyer who collects beanie babies or funky earrings-- totally different law. I'm sure Brent has also gone into this knowing that Jeffrey is a dog person ("Betsy, we can't chance it. Hide the cat! Oh, shoot, the closet's full. Call it Fido and maybe he won't notice.")

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by drcy

Though it is kind of funny if Brent said "Uh oh. I'm in such big trouble that I'd better get El Chapo's lawyer."

Though, obviously, Jeffrey has knowledge of this particular hobby, which it seems is what one would want for a lawyer on either side. You don't want to hire a lawyer who collects beanie babies or funky earrings-- totally different law. I'm sure Brent has also gone into this knowing that Jeffrey is a dog person ("Betsy, we can't chance it. Hide the cat! Oh, shoot, the closet's full. Call it Fido and maybe he won't notice.")

That is funny. We actually did that about 30 years ago. A friend had to stay with his brother for a while. The brother hated cats so we called the cat Spot and trained him to fetch.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by drcy

Though it is kind of funny if Brent said "Uh oh. I'm in such big trouble that I'd better get El Chapo's lawyer."

Though, obviously, Jeffrey has knowledge of this particular hobby, which it seems is what one would want for a lawyer on either side. You don't want to hire a lawyer who collects beanie babies or funky earrings-- totally different law. I'm sure Brent has also gone into this knowing that Jeffrey is a dog person ("Betsy, we can't chance it. Hide the cat! Oh, shoot, the closet's full. Call it Fido and maybe he won't notice.")

Whats wrong with Funky Earrings?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Another concern is that there have been issues with items PWCC has listed since the original scandal. I assume it hasn't been overwhelming, but it has happened, and their response didn't exactly demonstrate their supposed reform.

Final concern (until I think of another one) is what about their long history of shill bidding and price manipulation. As their advocate obviously you are not volunteering other concerns to the FBI, but the scope of their bad dealings goes far beyond the selling of doctored cards. They basically conspired to manipulate an entire market. If this had been any form of securities (which they wanted to turn cards into!) their would be little question about the fate of the company.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Another concern is that there have been issues with items PWCC has listed since the original scandal. I assume it hasn't been overwhelming, but it has happened, and their response didn't exactly demonstrate their supposed reform.

Final concern (until I think of another one) is what about their long history of shill bidding and price manipulation. As their advocate obviously you are not volunteering other concerns to the FBI, but the scope of their bad dealings goes far beyond the selling of doctored cards. They basically conspired to manipulate an entire market. If this had been any form of securities (which they wanted to turn cards into!) their would be little question about the fate of the company.

Scott but it isn’t a form of a security, you’re absolutely correct he wanted you to believe The graded high end cards in his auction we’re investment pieces that only go up....but that’s just his opinion. Maybe he should have had a disclaimer like you hear on investment shows. I never took what he said as investment advise...he is a salesman just has a annuity broker is a salesman.

He isn’t a fiduciary....as you know there are zero ethics and rules in this industry. It’s snake oil for for the most part all up to the buyer....again let the market dictate....to many emotions and not enough brains from collectors. When collecting meaning lower value stuff less brain is needed emotion is fine...when collecting with high thousand dollar cards emotion has to go out the window....it’s all brain. Many lost sight of this and bought into his marketing.

His Marketing, use that word lightly, others call manipulation, I’ll stick with Marketing, It was bull S++t.....however it’s just his opinion, it’s up to the market to decided wether it’s a bunch of crap or the real deal.......he obviously duped many many people as marketing his graded cards as investment vehicles.

Putting emotions all aside ......all I can say his don’t buy from the guy or consign to him....

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

He can call things what he likes, his attempt to equate them to securities isn't what I found questionable, that IS marketing and he can use all the hyperbole he likes. It's his obvious manipulation of the prices, to a degree that Mastro didn't even aspire to that may go unpunished that is my concern.

I was just making the interesting side point that if they were securities, as which he wanted people to think of them, he would be in a LOT bigger trouble, and making some people whole might mitigate that, but it wouldn't eliminate it.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Actually, Brent is unaware that I'm even posting here today. I don't have to provide a single iota of information to the people here -- Brent's issues are with the government first and foremost. I'm posting because I think it's the right thing to do and I'd like to clean up as much of this mess as possible and provide some clarity. I've helped the feds on any number of hobby fraud cases and will continue to do so. I've successfully sued Mastro and Allen and collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from them and their co-conspirators whereas the government collected $0 in restitution from them. I'm hardly coming on here and spinning some bullshit to help Brent out.

Jeff, I for one am glad that Brent got a lawyer that knows the baseball card hobby. You are in a unique position to really help get this done right. Or at least as right as it's going to get. I hope you'll keep posting to let us all know what's going on, and I know you are trying to help out the collectors as much as possible.

[Johnny630]

Something Positive to Post....I'm thankful and blessed to be a member of this board :-)
Thanks to Jeff...BO...Peter and many others whom post on here with substantive beneficial information to the benefit of all :-)

[Arazi4442]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Something Positive to Post....I'm thankful and blessed to be a member of this board :-)
Thanks to Jeff...BO...Peter and many others whom post on here with substantive beneficial information to the benefit of all :-)

Completely agree with this, thanks to everyone and the hours of hard work.

I have nothing to do with anything involving the law so take that into consideration. My concern is that PWCC gets to come out of this virtually unscathed.

Lie, cheat and steal your way to a couple million dollars profit - get caught - lie and steal some more - hear the Feds at the door - realize the "errors of your ways" - donate/refund a very small percentage of your profit (I'm sure on the advice of counsel) - get to play the hero/ martyr of the collecting community- take a year off - repeat

I certainly applaud Jeff's efforts towards restitution for the victims but I can't see how this dissuades anyone from trying something like this in the future.

Someone needs to be made an example of or we'll see another scandal every few years. While PSA has more than their share of blame, it feels to me that Brentsie was the ringleader. You shouldn't get off with a "whoops, my bad. Here's some of the money back that I stole. Sure the whole scheme ran through me but let me tell you about all the other bad eggs"

ETA - my name Sc0tt C1int0n

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I think that's the concern of a LOT of us.

Originally Posted by Arazi4442

Completely agree with this, thanks to everyone and the hours of hard work.

I have nothing to do with anything involving the law so take that into consideration. My concern is that PWCC gets to come out of this virtually unscathed.

Lie, cheat and steal your way to a couple million dollars profit - get caught - lie and steal some more - hear the Feds at the door - realize the "errors of your ways" - donate/refund a very small percentage of your profit (I'm sure on the advice of counsel) - get to play the hero/ martyr of the collecting community- take a year off - repeat

I certainly applaud Jeff's efforts towards restitution for the victims but I can't see how this dissuades anyone from trying something like this in the future.

Someone needs to be made an example of or we'll see another scandal every few years. While PSA has more than their share of blame, it feels to me that Brentsie was the ringleader. You shouldn't get off with a "whoops, my bad. Here's some of the money back that I stole. Sure the whole scheme ran through me but let me tell you about all the other bad eggs"

ETA - my name Sc0tt C1int0n