Washington Post article on the altered card scandal

[griffon512]

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by griffon512

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

no

[Millerd33]

Why are SGC holders used for the image yet not mentioned anywhere and no images of PSA holders at all?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Millerd33

Why are SGC holders used for the image yet not mentioned anywhere and no images of PSA holders at all?

This aspect annoyed me as well....

But finally a well-written article, overall. I thought the reporter covered most of the high points in an efficient and concise fashion.

[Millerd33]

I contacted SGC to let them know. We shall see if the image is changed.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Millerd33

I contacted SGC to let them know. We shall see if the image is changed.

The bigger question is why didn't the Washington Post run before and after photos of a doctored card. I can't imagine they wouldn't have permission from the BODA people to do so.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

The bigger question is why didn't the Washington Post run before and after photos of a doctored card. I can't imagine they wouldn't have permission from the BODA people to do so.

Because the BODA guys don't own the rights to those images?

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Millerd33

I contacted SGC to let them know. We shall see if the image is changed.

The pic is small, and the label text even smaller and essentially impossible to read. Few to none of the WaPo readers are going to be trying to read that label and I don't think will be able to read what it says if they do. They'll see it as a generic photo the type that accompanies articles.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

At this point, what defense is there for people that continue to do business with or associate with PWCC?

Arthur

[Millerd33]

Originally Posted by drcy

The pic is small, and the label text even smaller and essentially impossible to read. Few to none of the WaPo readers are going to be trying to read that label and I don't think will be able to read what it says if they do. They'll see it as a generic photo the type that accompanies articles.

This has been shared on many facebook card groups as well as anyone who goes to their website. It is very clear they are SGC in the image not PSA on those platforms.

[Rhotchkiss]

Excellent!! Well done to those pushing this with the media. Forward!

[BeanTown]

The term that collectors have said for decades comes to mind. Buy the card, and not the holder. For all the others that compete on the registry and invest on what the TPG say.. I hope the rabbit hole doesnt go down too far with this fraud/scandal.

On a side note.. Wasn't there an investigation going on with fake PSA holders coming South of the border? They were using real cards and hard to detect unless the cert number didnt match up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

JC there was and I think still is, I don't believe they have apprehended the guy yet.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

no

Or maybe they will, lol

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Or maybe they will, lol

Sorry?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

In a previous post I had said "why would a lawyer answer that question," then I saw that you did. Kudos.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Moser said in a phone interview that he does not alter cards. He said he seeks out cards that he thinks have been “undergraded” by appraisers, breaks them out of their holders and resubmits them to grading companies without alteration hoping for a better value.

“I look for cards that PSA rated 5s and 6s, crack them out and hopefully get a better answer,” he said. “I’ve been buying and selling cards for 20 years. If I’ve been doing this [altering] for that long, I’d be retired. If I was this master alterer, I’d be pretty bad at it. I’d be pretty stupid.”

[darwinbulldog]

One wonders why they went with a stack of SGC graded cards for the photo.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by griffon512

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

Why would they answer that? It may even be unethical to answer.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Why would they answer that? It may even be unethical to answer.

If they are not giving legal services to these people/entities, why would it be privileged? If they are giving legal services to them, it's the determination of the lawyer whether it's privileged or unethical. If enough lawyers who regularly post respond and one doesn't that alone might reflect something. Not sure why you posted. It should be obvious to you why I did.

[Bicem]

Finally a decent article about all this, David Seideman at Forbes should take notes.

[Johnny630]

Why are they Picturing SGC Cards and Not PSA ????

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Why are they Picturing SGC Cards and Not PSA ????

Likely an image they already had on file. There's another image from the 2010 National.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Likely an image they already had on file. There's another image from the 2010 National.

Thanks Scott....hope they change it..

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Likely an image they already had on file. There's another image from the 2010 National.

They probably covered the 2010 Baltimore National because of the proximity to Washington and had those photos on file. And because they don't have hobby knowledge we do, they used what they had.

Rich

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by griffon512

If they are not giving legal services to these people/entities, why would it be privileged? If they are giving legal services to them, it's the determination of the lawyer whether it's privileged or unethical. If enough lawyers who regularly post respond and one doesn't that alone might reflect something. Not sure why you posted. It should be obvious to you why I did.

The question, at least as I read it, was whether disclosure would be unethical, which is not limited to whether the information is privileged. Confidential information, privileged or not, may not be disclosed without client consent, with very limited exceptions.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

The question, at least as I read it, was whether disclosure would be unethical, which is not limited to whether the information is privileged. Confidential information, privileged or not, may not be disclosed without client consent, with very limited exceptions.

As Much as it Pains me to say this....I despise it but believe to be truth....
I think it’s going to Very Very difficult to prove Anyone allegedly Altered Any Cards....

Sad long term all the facts and exposure being brought to like will be good for the Industry...temporary pain hurts be will get much better

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

As Much as it Pains me to say this....I despise it but believe to be truth....
I think it’s going to Very Very difficult to prove Anyone allegedly Altered Any Cards....

Sad long term all the facts and exposure being brought to like will be good for the Industry...temporary pain hurts be will get much better

If there is an investigation, then I think whatever entity is in charge will have more tools in the toolbox to get at evidence than the BODA people do. And in that case, I believe that it won't be as difficult to prove the alterations/conspiracy/etc.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

If there is an investigation, then I think whatever entity is in charge will have more tools in the toolbox to get at evidence than the BODA people do. And in that case, I believe that it won't be as difficult to prove the alterations/conspiracy/etc.

I’m just addressing the altering of cards.....how are they going to able to prove that anyone did alleged alterations, meaning specific persons..... PSA can’t determine anything...that’s one thing that’s been shown by them, they’re good at not stopping them.. They’re laughing knowing They’re safe.....probably just not gonna be as bold about it...using same account to buy and same auction houses...it’s going to be more targeted and hidden....I take solace in knowing the more arrogant and brash they get the more likely they will be to get caught. Fingers crossed

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by griffon512

If they are not giving legal services to these people/entities, why would it be privileged? If they are giving legal services to them, it's the determination of the lawyer whether it's privileged or unethical. If enough lawyers who regularly post respond and one doesn't that alone might reflect something. Not sure why you posted. It should be obvious to you why I did.

Actually, there are certain circumstances where the fact of representation could be a client confidence that an attorney could not reveal without the client's permission, so some attorneys might not be able to answer the question.

I also want to make clear that I have no problems with any attorney who is asked to advise or defend an accused against potential criminal charges. It's part of the system. I don't happen to have the stomach for criminal defense, but that's my personality rather than anything else. I've defended some pretty sleazy people over the years in civil cases. Part of the job: you can pick your nose but you can't always pick your clients. Or their noses.

[Leon]

You can't choose not to take a client? Please help me understand how you have been forced to take a client?
If you were a criminal defense lawyer would you defend pwcc? I am sure I am just not understanding.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Actually, there are certain circumstances where the fact of representation could be a client confidence that an attorney could not reveal without the client's permission, so some attorneys might not be able to answer the question.

I also want to make clear that I have no problems with any attorney who is asked to advise or defend an accused against potential criminal charges. It's part of the system. I don't happen to have the stomach for criminal defense, but that's my personality rather than anything else. I've defended some pretty sleazy people over the years in civil cases. Part of the job: you can pick your nose but you can't always pick your clients. Or their noses.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by griffon512

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

No.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

No.

see title

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by griffon512

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

No.