I totally forgot PWCC had an auction ending tonight

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Never again.

+1

They will slowly lose legit buyers and consignors. They will be forced to stop doing unethical money making practices. The once all mighty eBay seller known as PWCC, will become an after thought within two years.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

+1

They will slowly lose legit buyers and consignors. They will be forced to stop doing unethical money making practices. The once all mighty eBay seller known as PWCC, will become an after thought within two years.

Same thing happened to GlacierBayDVD. And JayandMarie1centCDs. They were both considered too big to fail. They both crumbled.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

+1

They will slowly lose legit buyers and consignors. They will be forced to stop doing unethical money making practices. The once all mighty eBay seller known as PWCC, will become an after thought within two years.

Hopefully this will be the case. But the fact that prices are still very strong indicates that word of the scandal has not spread beyond Net54 and BO. It really demonstrates how many collectors there are who do not frequent these forums.

I know that many (less vocal) people here are probably still buying from PWCC because they want "the stuff"... but a big chunk here is not. And the boycotters are barely impacting prices realized (if at all). So until the word somehow reaches a larger audience, we might not see PWCC's demise anytime soon.

The best short-term opportunity for increasing exposure is obviously at The National. Hopefully, something will happen in Chicago, which will reveal their corruption to a greater audience. Otherwise we're likely in for more of the same deception.

[irv]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I don't think there's any question that gehrig's been chemically bathed/bleached!

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is the third or fourth such card we've seen recently in an S_C holder that looked (to my eye) way too white. I don't know what's going on. A card that white, or as white as that Leaf Jackie was, should raise red flags.

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Sadly I think the reality is that some alterations are not detectable...atleast not with current techniques used by SGC/PSA/Beckett.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How is it not detectable, you and I see it plain as day.

Like I mentioned to Swarmee in another thread, if there is no way to detect the bleach/chemicals, how can they reject it?

I agree it is definitely suspect but if there is no, 100% proof, that it has seen a chemical bath, then their hands are tied.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

Like I mentioned to Swarmee in another thread, if there is no way to detect the bleach/chemicals, how can they reject it?

I agree it is definitely suspect but if there is no, 100% proof, that it has seen a chemical bath, then their hands are tied.

Cards get rejected for EVIDENCE of trimming, etc., there is no 100 percent proof standard, don't know where you are coming up with that. The human eye is probably the best evidence in any event. That's how most alterations are detected. Do you think they're putting cards through lab tests?

[packs]

Lets say a card is bleached, will it disintegrate over time? What are you left with in 20 years?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Cards get rejected for EVIDENCE of trimming, etc., there is no 100 percent proof standard, don't know where you are coming up with that. The human eye is probably the best evidence in any event. That's how most alterations are detected. Do you think they're putting cards through lab tests?

What are you suggesting then? If a vintage card looks too clean it shouldn't be graded because it was probably bleached? I'm not sure how this could be detected without some kind of forensic test, and don't think a card should be rejected without some kind of evidence that it was, or probably was altered.

Looking too clean or white is not enough evidence in my opinion for a TPG to reject a card.

[trambo]

I bid on 2 t205's last night in the PWCC. I bid accordingly to what I thought they were worth and used a snipe program to do the bidding. I lost both auctions.

Auction 1 was the same card listed and sold by PWCC in February (same PSA cert on the card). Of the bids by the winning bidder in all auctions, 66% of their bids were for PWCC auctions.

Auction 2-new item. Of the bids by the winning bidder in all auctions, 41% of their bids were for PWCC auctions.

The above tells me that at least auction 1 was a shill bid but most likely both were.

I wasn't too broken up that I didn't win the cards (ok..not broken up at all) but it crystallized my opinion of the shady tactics PWCC employs. Nothing to do here really but stay away from PWCC auctions as many have said. I'm sure this sort of thing has been posted more than once but thought my first hand experience may help someone even if it's buried on this thread.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

What are you suggesting then? If a vintage card looks too clean it shouldn't be graded because it was probably bleached? I'm not sure how this could be detected without some kind of forensic test, and don't think a card should be rejected without some kind of evidence that it was, or probably was altered.

Looking too clean or white is not enough evidence in my opinion for a TPG to reject a card.

If that were the case (rejecting cards that are "too clean"), the Black Swamp find, for one, would have never been graded.

Steve

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Steve D

If that were the case (rejecting cards that are "too clean"), the Black Swamp find, for one, would have never been graded.

Steve

BSF cards were stored in paper practically from the time they were made and still did not have SNOW WHITE borders like the gehrig...or other bleached cards.