T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



…………….. The 150 Series backs associated with the Elite 11 subjects ……………..


As most of you T206 collectors know by now, these 11 subjects in the 150/350 Series are extremely difficult to find with the PIEDMONT 350 back.
They are also quite tough to find with the EPDG back. These subjects were not printed with the usual SOVEREIGN 350, nor SWEET CAPORAL 350,
nor the various 350 series Assorted backs (as all the other subjects in the 150/350 Series).

This strange curiosity was first explored on this forum back in 2007, when I discovered the Carl Lundgren (Cubs) card with a PIEDMONT 350 back.
This Lundgren card prompted me to post a thread in which we ran several surveys on certain 150/350 Series cards. Check-it-out...… Elite 11

Here's an interesting anecdote I'll include in this post. Some years ago at the Cleveland National a well-dressed gentleman came to my booth, and
sat down and introduced himself.....David Hall. By then, David's Master T206 set comprised of 4000+ cards. He asked me about these rare T206's,
which I refer to as the "Elite 11". He chuckled at the fact that these T206's were considered quite rare with PIEDMONT 350 backs. I recall, the only
Elite 11 card in his collection at that time was Ewing. I had 4 of these cards at my table, and he purchased them. More importantly, it was the start
of a very nice friendship.

OK, I'll start this show with my Elite 11 cards...…






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TED Z
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[tedzan]

Additional info...…

Lundgren (Cubs) was printed with only three backs (PIEDMONT 150, 350, and EPDG).

Ewing and Tom Jones were also printed with SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #649 (overprint).


TED Z
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



…………….. The 150 Series backs associated with the Elite 11 subjects ……………..


I have been tracking the source of these Elite 11 cards since 2008, when I acquired a mid-size lot of T206's from an Antique dealer in Atlanta.
He told me that these cards were from an original collection in a town nearby Atlanta. This collection was strictly PIEDMONT cards; and, I was
pleasantly surprised to find 8 of the Elite 11 cards in this group.

Then approx. 7 years ago, another original collection of T206's was discovered in the Atlanta area. And, this collection included 7 Elite 11 cards.

Furthermore, 2 years ago Turner Engle (asoriano) reported here of an original collection from Georgia.. Georgia Find: 878 T205's and T206's
In this collection were four Elite 11 cards, including the very scarce Spencer card.

It appears that Factory #25 shipped PIEDMONT cigarette packs (containing 1st print run PIEDMONT 350 cards) to Georgia. I say this since some
of the Joe Doyle Nat'L cards have been found in T206 collections originating from Georgia. Best example of this is Senator Richard Russell's T206
collection. It is the first known source of the Elite 11 cards. Russell's original set also includes the Joe Doyle Nat'L card. Russell lived in Winder, a
town not far from Atlanta. He collected Tobacco cards as a teenager during 1909 - 1910.

To date, my records indicate that 4 original collections of T206's discovered in the surrounding area of Atlanta include the rare T206's that I refer
to as the Elite 11 cards.

Please chime in here if you have any of these Elite 11 cards of which you are certain of their provenance.

Thank you,


TED Z
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[Ronnie73]

The Elite 11 card group is one of many favorites I have in the master front/back set. I'll have to dig the cards out and get some scans to post. I'm currently lacking Jones and Lundgren in Piedmont 350's and Dahlen in EPDG.

It might be time to do another survey on how many of these cards are out there. I know there have been some new discoveries since the last count was conducted. Population reports are not accurate at all. I know for a fact that Spencer in SGC, one was cracked and is currently raw and another was crossed over to PSA, David Hall's SGC 60 to a PSA 4.5.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

The Elite 11 card group is one of many favorites I have in the master front/back set. I'll have to dig the cards out and get some scans to post. I'm currently lacking Jones and Lundgren in Piedmont 350's and Dahlen in EPDG.

It might be time to do another survey on how many of these cards are out there. I know there have been some new discoveries since the last count was conducted. Population reports are not accurate at all. I know for a fact that Spencer in SGC, one was cracked and is currently raw and another was crossed over to PSA, David Hall's SGC 60 to a PSA 4.5.

Hi Ron

Thanks for chiming in here regarding this subject. It too, is one of my favorite group of T206 cards (as are the Exclusive 12 group).

And, your are correct that we can not depend on the pop reports to provide an accurate count on these Elite 11 cards. Every SGC graded card
which I have sold to David Hall is crossed over to PSA. And, what is interesting is that PSA for the most part gives him a lower grade than SGC.

However, the pop reports are useful in indicating the relative scarcity of the PIEDMONT 350 vs PIEDMONT 150 cards of these Elite 11 subjects.
For examples:

Ewing = 9 - PIEDMONT 350 vs 244 - PIEDMONT 150 cards.

Spencer = 6 - PIEDMONT 350 vs 243 - PIEDMONT 150 cards.


Yes, by all means show us your Elite 11 cards.


TED Z
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[insidethewrapper]

Ted: As of July, 2019, how many T206's have been confirmed , that is, including all variations and backs etc.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Ted: As of July, 2019, how many T206's have been confirmed , that is, including all variations and backs etc.

Hi Mike

Last time I heard, David Hall's Master set comprises of 5200 - 5300 different T206's.

I don't have an exact number as of today.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Ted: As of July, 2019, how many T206's have been confirmed , that is, including all variations and backs etc.

Hi Mike

Citing David Hall's numbers from his Master T206 set is not really the best answer to your question......since, his set is not 100% complete. But, it's certainly very close.

Upon going thru my records, I figure that all the known (plus the predicted ones that have yet to be confirmed) front/back permutations result in a number very close to
5400 different T206's. This is still a work in progress for me.

The Blank-back T206's, of course, do not enter into any calculation here because of their randomness....and are therefore unpredictable.



TED Z
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