Is CC Sabathia a Hall of Famer?

[wondo]

I like his chances and I like him. The Hall of Fame has always been somewhat of a popularity contest past the over-qualified players. My perception is that nice guys who are borderline get in - Tony Perez, any friend of Bill Terry, Baines, Youngs, etc. granted, these are all stars that anyone would be ecstatic to have on their team. Perhaps a notch below, while the Dick Allens, roid monsters, Belles of the baseball world remain on the outside. I'm not judging, just saying how it looks. There are outliers to every generalization.

Id love for Sabathia to get into the Hall - he's more than deserving imo. Plus he's one of the few successful players fatter than me (almost).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Definitely. He has both the strong career numbers and a solid stretch where he was one of the top pitchers in the game.

[oldjudge]

Close but no cigar. Who cares about strikeouts? An out is an out. Career 3.71 ERA, 1.26 WHIP--Good, not great.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Close but no cigar. Who cares about strikeouts? An out is an out. Career 3.71 ERA, 1.26 WHIP--Good, not great.

No, an out that is not a K can advance runners.

[wondo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No, an out that is not a K can advance runners.

A strikeout can advance runners, although rarely. On the flip side a ball in play is much more likely to become a double play than a strikeout. I believe extensive analysis has been done on this by SABR and James and the conclusion is an out is an out.

Little League is a different story...........................

[RedsFan1941]

he’s the real deal

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No, an out that is not a K can advance runners.

Great--ERA covers that

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No, an out that is not a K can advance runners.

You are correct. There are productive outs and unproductive outs. Anyone who can induce a strikeout like Sabathia is dominant. I never liked him as he always killed by Orioles (but then again, who hasn't) but he is a HOFer for sure.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Close but no cigar. Who cares about strikeouts? An out is an out. Career 3.71 ERA, 1.26 WHIP--Good, not great.

Better than Jack Morris, especially when you compare each to their contemporaries.

[Sogcollector]

Not sure but IMO Kershaw is far from a HOF and will likely barely make it to 200 wins, much less 250. Too many miles on that elbow.

[scotgreb]

IMO Sabathia is likely in and Kershaw is a lock -- 3 Cy Young awards and top 5 in 7 consecutive years + an MVP

Sabathia, CC 1999 Topps33T PSA 10 05324421.jpg

[Mountaineer1999]

Maybe? If so then Schilling, Tiant, and Kevin Brown go in also?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Sogcollector

Not sure but IMO Kershaw is far from a HOF and will likely barely make it to 200 wins, much less 250. Too many miles on that elbow.

You're not going to have a lot of company on that one and Kershaw has back problems not elbow problems.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Sogcollector

Not sure but IMO Kershaw is far from a HOF and will likely barely make it to 200 wins, much less 250. Too many miles on that elbow.

3 Cy Young awards, an MVP award, 7x All-Star, career winning percentage is essentially .700, career ERA of 2.41, a career WAR of 65+ in 12 years. Even if he has a career ending injury tomorrow those numbers dictate he is in... right now!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

3 Cy Young awards, an MVP award, 7x All-Star, career winning percentage is essentially .700, career ERA of 2.41, a career WAR of 65+ in 12 years. Even if he has a career ending injury tomorrow those numbers dictate he is in... right now!

Lock. No question. It's just a damn shame his post-season performance has been such a relative disappointment. Otherwise, a generational pitcher, and by all indications a fine individual as well.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

3 Cy Young awards, an MVP award, 7x All-Star, career winning percentage is essentially .700, career ERA of 2.41, a career WAR of 65+ in 12 years. Even if he has a career ending injury tomorrow those numbers dictate he is in... right now!

+1 - Add in 9.7 Ks per 9 innings; an even “1” WHIP; a 4.27 K/BB ratio and 11 consecutive seasons of a sub-3.00 ERA (of which 3 of those were sub-2.00)! His regular season numbers are uncanny and possibly merit him a top 10 pitcher status.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Sogcollector

Not sure but IMO Kershaw is far from a HOF and will likely barely make it to 200 wins, much less 250. Too many miles on that elbow.

Live ball era leader in career ERA (by a LOT) , already has more great seasons than Koufax. He's a no-brainer.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Close but no cigar. Who cares about strikeouts? An out is an out. Career 3.71 ERA, 1.26 WHIP--Good, not great.

I have to agree with Jay. Add the fact he posted only ONE season with a sub-3.00 ERA & 20 wins. Solid pitcher but not HOF caliber. Peak value, Tiant & Schilling were superior. HOF continues to be watered down.

[BioCRN]

People can bang on that Schilling drum all they want, but it's not numbers that's keeping him out of the HOF.

I think he belongs and I think he'll eventually get in, but he's got a whole career of pissing off teammates, sportswriters, and people from all walks of life during and after his career.

It has nothing at all to do with what was going on between the mound and the batter. That "character" thing they stress does some heavy lifting, especially historically, but that is keeping Schilling out of the HOF.

As far as CC goes, I'm not surprised he's a HOF'r, but I am surprised it's 1st ballot.

[conor912]

He is now.

[michael3322]

Quite stunning that CC got in on the first ballot.

Consider the case of Johnny Mize...

Hall of Fame votes...
1960 BBWAA (16.7%)
1962 BBWAA ( 8.8%)
1964 BBWAA (26.9%)
1964 Run Off ( 6.0%)
1966 BBWAA (26.8%)
1967 BBWAA (30.5%)
1967 Run Off ( 4.6%)
1968 BBWAA (36.4%)
1969 BBWAA (34.1%)
1970 BBWAA (42.0%)
1971 BBWAA (43.6%)
1972 BBWAA (39.6%)
1973 BBWAA (41.3%)
1981 Veterans (inducted)
Selected to HOF in 1981 by Veteran's Committee

SUMMARY
WAR 70.6
AB 6443
H 2011
HR 359
BA .312
R 1118
RBI 1337
SB 28
OBP .397
SLG .562
OPS .959
OPS+ 158


Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Batting - 50 (33rd), Average HOFer ≈ 27
Gray Ink
Batting - 202 (50th), Average HOFer ≈ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 175 (62nd), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 47 (104th), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
First Base (9th):
70.6 career WAR | 48.4 7yr-peak WAR | 59.5 JAWS | 6.1 WAR/162
Average HOF 1B (out of 25):
64.8 career WAR | 42.0 7yr-peak WAR | 53.4 JAWS | 4.8 WAR/162

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...mizejo01.shtml

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by conor912

He is now.

+1 he's in, doesn't matter. OBE.