OMG Blowout list of suspected trimmed modern cards

[frankbmd]

I’m sure that some of our members would not consider this evidence.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I’m sure that some of our members would not consider this evidence.

It's just a list of cards and cert numbers. I did not see any evidence in that list. Perhaps you could point it out to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

It's just a list of cards and cert numbers. I did not see any evidence in that list. Perhaps you could point it out to me.

I would agree to an extent. With the exception of references to cards already identified as trimmed by clear photo evidence, it's a list of SUSPECTED cards. Merely appearing on the list is not proof a card was altered. Depending on your point of view, there could be a presumption, although at this point that would not get one over the more likely than not threshold in a lawsuit and so it's more of an opinion/personal judgment. At the very least, though, it's certainly a red flag that anyone with cards on the list should -- if they care -- take proactive measures to further assess those cards. In my opinion, very valuable information for the collecting community. It's just a shame guys on the internet have to uncover this information which is much more readily accessible to the TPGs and to PWCC.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would agree to an extent. With the exception of references to cards already identified as trimmed by clear photo evidence, it's a list of SUSPECTED cards. Merely appearing on the list is not proof a card was altered. Depending on your point of view, there could be a presumption, although at this point that would not get one over the more likely than not threshold in a lawsuit and so it's more of an opinion/personal judgment. At the very least, though, it's certainly a red flag that anyone with cards on the list should -- if they care -- take proactive measures to further assess those cards. In my opinion, very valuable information for the collecting community.

I'd say this is the first time in a while we are in complete agreement. If I'm reading that thread correctly many of the cards in question aren't even alleged to be altered, just bumped successfully at too high a rate to be considered legitimate. Well I certainly believe that's possible, and even likely, that alone is not proof.

If anything this shows how small the difference in the actual quality of the card between a 9, 9.5, 10, or black label is and how absurd the price difference is. A card in any one of those 4 holders would not look out of place in any other, most of the time.

I would be surprised if people hadn't figured out a way to exploit this. Way too much money at stake for a grader making whatever they make not to try to cash in.

[calvindog]

Interesting that the only grading company which appears to have some evidence of crooked graders is Beckett.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Interesting that the only grading company which appears to have some evidence of crooked graders is Beckett.

The BGS 10 (how the bleep can a card or subgrade be better than gem mint) and the Black Label thing certainly create a huge potential for BS.

[oldjudge]

Why is anyone surprised by this? If a card is available in a 9 and the bump from a 9 to a 10 is many multiples I would be shocked if this didn’t happen. The idiots paying the multiples for a barely discernible change are fueling this. They are getting what they should expect. It doesn’t make it right, but it is none-the-less inevitable.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Interesting that the only grading company which appears to have some evidence of crooked graders is Beckett.

that's for now. We know PSA has been crooked and have played favorites to their dealer network especially PWCC for YEARS & YEARS. Hopefully the proof will come out in our lifetime but it will definitely come out. The truth almost always wins out in the end. You know that.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

that's for now. We know PSA has been crooked and have played favorites to their dealer network especially PWCC for YEARS & YEARS. Hopefully the proof will come out in our lifetime but it will definitely come out. The truth almost always wins out in the end. You know that.

How do we “know” if the proof has yet to come out?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'd say this is the first time in a while we are in complete agreement. If I'm reading that thread completely many of the cards in question aren't even alleged to be altered, just bumped successfully at too high a rate to be considered legitimate. Well I certainly believe that's possible, and even likely, that alone is not proof.

If anything this shows how small the difference in the actual quality of the card between a 9, 9.5, 10, or black label is and how absurd the price difference is. A card in any one of those 4 holders would not look out of place in any other, most of the time.

I would be surprised if people hadn't figured out a way to exploit this. Way too much money at stake for a grader making whatever they make not to try to cash in.

I think if we had complete knowledge of these submissions we would see that many cards were altered, some were bumps (no comment at this point on any degree of corruption or favoritism), and some may be just regular cards thrown in to create the appearance of normalcy. The problem for the collector is how the hell do you figure out the story with YOUR cards. Beckett sure as hell isn't going to review them for you, and at this point who would trust them to do it anyhow?

Now some may be obvious when examined with a new and critical eye by the owner, but many may not be if this card doctor is as good as people say.