OMG Blowout list of suspected trimmed modern cards

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Why is anyone surprised by this? If a card is available in a 9 and the bump from a 9 to a 10 is many multiples I would be shocked if this didn’t happen. The idiots paying the multiples for a barely discernible change are fueling this. They are getting what they should expect. It doesn’t make it right, but it is none-the-less inevitable.

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

I don't collect many modern cards but one I follow is the 89 ud Griffey. A card with 2 9.5 sub grades and 2 10s (gem mt vs pristine) is still a 9.5 worth around 500 bucks. Upgrade one of those 9.5s to a 10 and the card is now a 10, worth about 3500. 4 10s is a black label, and now the card is 10-20k probably, I'd have to look it up. I couldn't even tell you the difference in card characteristics of gem mt vs pristine, other than the obvious, almost perfect vs perfect.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't collect many modern cards but one I follow is the 89 ud Griffey. A card with 2 9.5 sub grades and 2 10s (gem mt vs pristine) is still a 9.5 worth around 500 bucks. Upgrade one of those 9.5s to a 10 and the card is now a 10, worth about 3500. 4 10s is a black label, and now the card is 10-20k probably, I'd have to look it up. I couldn't even tell you the difference in card characteristics of gem mt vs pristine, other than the obvious, almost perfect vs perfect.

I am highly skeptical cards above a 9.5 (or I should say with subs above a 9.5) would consistently regrade if resubmitted raw. Maybe it's not purely arbitrary (or corrupt) but hard to believe it's objective and reproducible. I can't even make sense of some of the subs on 9.5 and lower cards, particularly centering on some Star BKB.

[sportscardtheory]

I have about 300 cards graded by PSA and BGS, but it's pretty obvious with this massive TPG scandal that the only way cards should be graded is with technology. There needs to be a system in place that if you ran a card through said system, the same said card would grade the same 100 times out of 100. Humans simply can not be trusted to be subjective and honest. Human-based TPGs should go the way of the Dodo bird. They're, inconsistent, unreliable, untrustworthy and not subjective.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I have about 300 cards graded by PSA and BGS, but it's pretty obvious with this massive TPG scandal that the only way cards should be graded is with technology. There needs to be a system in place that if you ran a card through said system, the same said card would grade the same 100 times out of 100. Humans simply can not be trusted to be subjective and honest. Human-based TPGs should go the way of the Dodo bird. They're, inconsistent, unreliable, untrustworthy and not subjective.

That's funny, other hobbies have authenticators/tpg that take their time to get it right, and catch very nearly everything, without technology.

To use technology, you need a few things. The first is the knowledge to tell the technology what to look for. None of the TPGs have that.
Next, you need the ability to look at edge quality to be able to see the difference between a factory edge and a non- factory edge. If nobody knows the difference, they can't tell the technology what's good and what's not.

Technology is probably currently easier to fool than a relatively knowledgeable person.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am highly skeptical cards above a 9.5 (or I should say with subs above a 9.5) would consistently regrade if resubmitted raw. Maybe it's not purely arbitrary (or corrupt) but hard to believe it's objective and reproducible. I can't even make sense of some of the subs on 9.5 and lower cards, particularly centering on some Star BKB.

Interesting idea for an experiment though, if someone was willing to risk a black label by cracking and submitting it several times.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't collect many modern cards but one I follow is the 89 ud Griffey. A card with 2 9.5 sub grades and 2 10s (gem mt vs pristine) is still a 9.5 worth around 500 bucks. Upgrade one of those 9.5s to a 10 and the card is now a 10, worth about 3500. 4 10s is a black label, and now the card is 10-20k probably, I'd have to look it up. I couldn't even tell you the difference in card characteristics of gem mt vs pristine, other than the obvious, almost perfect vs perfect.

So if you took a 9.5 Griffey and changed, say, an edge subgrade from a 9.5 to a 10 (seems completely arbitrary to me), that adds 3K value? SMH at that.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So if you took a 9.5 Griffey and changed, say, an edge subgrade from a 9.5 to a 10 (seems completely arbitrary to me), that adds 3K value? SMH at that.

Not every 9.5 has 2 9.5 and 2 10 subgrades. But yes on one that does that's all it would take. I'm sure it's been done many times before. Just like guys who buy 50 or 100 Henderson rookies in a 9 and send them in hoping 1 will bump I'm sure guys pick up a bunch of bgs 9.5 or PSA 10 89 griffeys and do the same. If one guy, or a group of collectors has someone on the inside awarding these bumps with or without merit it would essentially be as good as just printing money.

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

Perhaps something like...

Triple Dog GEM MINT with all Caps?

Double Secret GEM Mint?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bram99

Perhaps something like...

Triple Dog GEM MINT with all Caps?

Double Secret GEM Mint?

Dunno. But all kidding and TPG bashing aside, if people have cards on this list and the ones published before and the ones yet to come, don't play ostrich. There's at least a good chance they're altered considering the source. Above all, don't draw a false sense of security from the fact that BO guys have not found specific before and after pics, that doesn't mean much in this context.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

Doctored!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Doctored!

haha

[Johnny630]

How can either company remain trusted ?? If PSA fails to take responsibility admits their wrong, and pays back full value for their bad cards I will never trust them again.
I’m sure they will do nothing, very sad and par for the course in this industry. Hope PSA proves me wrong....not holding breath.

[jad22]

Wow. That’s a lot of submissions.

[drcy]

The longer the lists the better. Some self-deluding dolts, such as on the CU board, won't open their eyes unless they're hit over the head with a sledgehammer.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by drcy

The longer the lists the better. Some self-delusioning dolts, such as on the CU board, won't open their eyes unless they're hit over the head with a sledgehammer.

Agree the Kool Aid hasn’t stopped being consumed yet.....sheeple with Registry Cards...

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by drcy

The longer the lists the better. Some self-deluding dolts, such as on the CU board, won't open their eyes unless they're hit over the head with a sledgehammer.

I was one of the first members on that message board. A couple years ago I posted a questionable Gretzky PSA/DNA card. They not only banned me, but the mod at the time (Jackie) called my cell phone at 9/10ish EST and laid me out for the post.

I visited the site today to see how the fraud is being handled and it looks like the new mod is actually editing user's posts by changing or removing things said. That's a first for me on any forum.

The reason the members there will "not open their eyes unless they're hit over the head with a sledgehammer" is because they don't want to lose posting privileges. For most of the regular posters there, that forum is their life and they cannot function without it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jad22

Wow. That’s a lot of submissions.

From what I am told, many more are in progress.

[Directly]

Curious Beckett authentic--Is it possible this Griffey auto may have been added recently to this card and is it authentic, now listed as a auction on Ebay-- its appears signed with a bold sharpie quite different than all other examples I have seen on these dual signed card?

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Directly

Curious Beckett authentic--Is it possible this Griffey auto may have been added recently to this card and is it authentic, now listed as a auction on Ebay-- its appears signed with a bold sharpie quite different than all other examples I have seen on these dual signed card?

I believe all the cards were signed by Griffey, and just a percentage by Mantle, so the only possible forgeries are the Mantle.

[Sogcollector]

Originally Posted by drcy

I believe all the cards were signed by Griffey, and just a percentage by Mantle, so the only possible forgeries are the Mantle.

I recall examples signed by just griffey, just mantle and both together. Have never seen one signed in thick sharpie. They used a fine point sharpie. You can tell the mantle is legit. Imo griff on that card added later

[ATP]

Originally Posted by Directly

Curious Beckett authentic--Is it possible this Griffey auto may have been added recently to this card and is it authentic, now listed as a auction on Ebay-- its appears signed with a bold sharpie quite different than all other examples I have seen on these dual signed card?

That looks like Junior's signature, but not from 1994. His signature style was much different then, longer and more flowing and lighter hand. This is his smaller more current signature style. They did produce that card with just Mantle's signature and not Griffey so it's almost certain that this is the case, with the Griffey added probably just this year when he did the mail in private signing.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Directly

Curious Beckett authentic--Is it possible this Griffey auto may have been added recently to this card and is it authentic, now listed as a auction on Ebay-- its appears signed with a bold sharpie quite different than all other examples I have seen on these dual signed card?

I've always wanted that card. Those are my two favorite players to collect. Any idea how that effects the value if Griffey did sign 10 or 20 years later?

[Directly]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I've always wanted that card. Those are my two favorite players to collect. Any idea how that effects the value if Griffey did sign 10 or 20 years later?

If the Griffey Jr auto is not original to the card and was added later to possibly enhance the value, isn't this somewhat deceiving the Beckett Flip didn't advise the card had been altered.

Might this card be in the same category as other doctored cards not disclosing this fact ?-- (the card wasn't pulled from the pack as originally intended by the manufacturer)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Dryden RC apparently recolored from a 9 to a 10. It looks like the 52B Musial guy bought it.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3068

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Directly

If the Griffey Jr auto is not original to the card and was added later to possibly enhance the value, isn't this somewhat deceiving the Beckett Flip didn't advise the card had been altered.

Might this card be in the same category as other doctored cards not disclosing this fact ?-- (the card wasn't pulled from the pack as originally intended by the manufacturer)

Interesting question. I don't really know the answer, and this is a unique example. No other card would be considered altered because the player on it signed it. Did the cards vary at all from the factory if they were dual or single signed? Would collectors care if the signature was added later?

I just like that it's the only card with my 2 personal favorite players from different eras on the same card. While I would prefer one that was pack issued with both signatures I could certainly see myself buying one with Griffey added later. Especially if this fact was disclosed and it saved me a few hundred bucks.

[Sogcollector]

Originally Posted by Directly

Curious Beckett authentic--Is it possible this Griffey auto may have been added recently to this card and is it authentic, now listed as a auction on Ebay-- its appears signed with a bold sharpie quite different than all other examples I have seen on these dual signed card?

After studying this card more, I believe it was taken from a pack signed by mantle (think black sharpie) and the griffey was added later. The holograms on the back, as far as I know cannot be used to verify the signatures. This card never existed unsigned. It came from the 94 packs three ways. Signed by only mantle. Signed by only griffey and signed by both players.

[Sogcollector]

This one IMO is not a pack pulled piece. Real, but UDA gave some of these out as autograph redemption replacements from their vault if memory holds. Came with UDA coa.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Upper-...ss!29654!US!-1

Pack pulled piece IMO

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Upper-...QAAOSwglJc-rjT

The pack pulled pieces did not come with COA’s

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Sogcollector

After studying this card more, I believe it was taken from a pack signed by mantle (think black sharpie) and the griffey was added later. The holograms on the back, as far as I know cannot be used to verify the signatures. This card never existed unsigned. It came from the 94 packs three ways. Signed by only mantle. Signed by only griffey and signed by both players.

Agree...

That is definitely a more recent (and authentic) Griffey Jr. signature.

[drcy]

That's how I remember it now. The cards were issued signed by one, or both. If it's signed by one, it's necessarily authentic. If it's signed by both, forgeries most often are of the Mantle.

[jchcollins]

9 times out of 10 I really don't care about grading; I will buy graded online if all other things equal the price is in line with raw - but this stuff really makes my head spin. I have a Nolan Ryan rookie that is maybe a nice 5 that I was considering sending in to SGC just to get it in a slab - but now not sure I can even stomach doing that. I really wonder if the entire world of TPG's are getting ready to get stood on their collective ear...

[Bcwcardz]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

Why stop at 10 when you can have...


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