1952 Bowman Stan Musial PSA 10 on eBay :o

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Exactly, plus if it comes back a 9 he's lost nothing.

True!! It did not occur to me it could come back something other than a 10 or altered (but I am not that smart to begin with!). And I guess if it comes back altered, or a 8 or 9, he cracks a resubmits, over and over until he gets the 10 or gives up. Perhaps that is what happened.

Ok Peter, I am convinced. It’s not PSA on this one; at least they were not knowingly involved.

[MULLINS5]

When you're making money this easy, $3k ain't nothing to roll the dice on. My money is on PSA NOT being a knowing party to the fraud.

[Bpm0014]

He only has to make it work 1 time in 8 for this to pay off.

"Pot odds..."

[sportscardtheory]

Some rose-colored glasses up in here. The core reason for PSA and BGS' existance is keeping their customers safe from fraud. lol 'This is fine' comes to mind. As if these companies will police themselves.

[oldjudge]

You get a flu shot every year to minimize your chance of getting the flu. You don't smoke (hopefully) to minimize your chance of getting heart and respiratory disease. You wear a seat belt to minimize your chance of getting killed in an auto accident. Nothing completely eliminates bad outcomes; you can, however, reduce the probability of them happening. Grading cards substantially reduces the chance of getting doctored cards; it does not eliminate it. Procedures will improve over time to reduce the probability of getting a doctored card still further. However, like in the prior examples, the probability will never go to zero. If you can live with that great. If not, you will never be happy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jay perhaps but they've been doing this for 28 years now. What's your basis for thinking things are improving? For me these revelations are confirming my wildest fears.

[Promethius88]

What is really being overlooked here, imo, is how good is the work that is being done? Nobody has answered this question no matter how many times I have asked it. It is pretty easy, in most cases, from what I have seen to tell the alterations from before and after pics. But what about cards that have never been previously holdered or cards that have never been sold online to have an electronic footprint? Is the work so good that it can't be reasonably detected by the advanced collector or by TPG's? I'm not interested in another response that "Oh the TPG's are the professionals and should be able to....". Yeah, I get that, but would this work be undetectable by 99.9% of people without before and after pics??

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You get a flu shot every year to minimize your chance of getting the flu. You don't smoke (hopefully) to minimize your chance of getting heart and respiratory disease. You wear a seat belt to minimize your chance of getting killed in an auto accident. Nothing completely eliminates bad outcomes; you can, however, reduce the probability of them happening. Grading cards substantially reduces the chance of getting doctored cards; it does not eliminate it. Procedures will improve over time to reduce the probability of getting a doctored card still further. However, like in the prior examples, the probability will never go to zero. If you can live with that great. If not, you will never be happy.

Procedures will also improve over time to increase the probability of getting a doctored card past the graders. But everything happening now is small potatoes compared to what eventually kills off the TPG business and probably the hobby itself -- AI and 3D printing technology advanced enough to fabricate new "old" cards identical to the actual old cards. It's not as though the molecules that make up a T206 Wagner are particularly scarce on our planet. At that point though I guess we'll have bigger problems to worry about.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You get a flu shot every year to minimize your chance of getting the flu. You don't smoke (hopefully) to minimize your chance of getting heart and respiratory disease. You wear a seat belt to minimize your chance of getting killed in an auto accident. Nothing completely eliminates bad outcomes; you can, however, reduce the probability of them happening. Grading cards substantially reduces the chance of getting doctored cards; it does not eliminate it. Procedures will improve over time to reduce the probability of getting a doctored card still further. However, like in the prior examples, the probability will never go to zero. If you can live with that great. If not, you will never be happy.

Nail Squarely Hit!

Steve

[Republicaninmass]

The recoloring seems pretty evident, even to the naked eye in the scans. Maybe because it was pointed out?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You get a flu shot every year to minimize your chance of getting the flu. You don't smoke (hopefully) to minimize your chance of getting heart and respiratory disease. You wear a seat belt to minimize your chance of getting killed in an auto accident. Nothing completely eliminates bad outcomes; you can, however, reduce the probability of them happening. Grading cards substantially reduces the chance of getting doctored cards; it does not eliminate it. Procedures will improve over time to reduce the probability of getting a doctored card still further. However, like in the prior examples, the probability will never go to zero. If you can live with that great. If not, you will never be happy.

Present, ever growing list of doctored cards, notwithstanding...