1952 Bowman Stan Musial PSA 10 on eBay :o

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It takes no balls at all for someone with hundreds of thousands of dollars in cards and probably millions in the bank to take a gamble on a 3K card, with a huge upside. You can't see that?

Exactly, plus if it comes back a 9 he's lost nothing.

[swarmee]

Actually, at a 9, it probably still goes higher after the touchups. He's made a lot of profit on cards that stayed the same technical grade if you check the thread on Blowout, just by improving the centering or eye appeal.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Actually, at a 9, it probably still goes higher after the touchups. He's made a lot of profit on cards that stayed the same technical grade if you check the thread on Blowout, just by improving the centering or eye appeal.

Yes, his auction partner throws a HE sticker on it and rally’s his big time buyers to run up the price, with Moser playing shill. Even a 9 likely ends with big profit. Thats a big part of the racket, the auctioneer is not impartial. He is coaching buyers, would be fascinating to see the bid history on the cards Moser buys vs those he sells, and analyze for bid history / retractions etc

[Steve D]

I just noticed something:

If you look at the scan of the PSA 9 from 10 years ago (Heritage), the white spot on Stan's left sleeve is NOT there. This matches with the PSA 10 scan.

So, on the scan from 2017 of the reholdered PSA 9, the visible white spot must simply be a speck of dust either on the slab, or on the scanner.

It would be interesting to know if the black dot in the left upper front border of the card is actually there on the PSA 10. Some scanners, depending on the setting, are known to automatically take out extraneous dots, due to their auto-correct functions.

Steve

[PiratesWS1979]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I just noticed something:

If you look at the scan of the PSA 9 from 10 years ago (Heritage), the white spot on Stan's left sleeve is NOT there. This matches with the PSA 10 scan.

So, on the scan from 2017 of the reholdered PSA 9, the visible white spot must simply be a speck of dust either on the slab, or on the scanner.

It would be interesting to know if the black dot in the left upper front border of the card is actually there on the PSA 10. Some scanners, depending on the setting, are known to automatically take out extraneous dots, due to their auto-correct functions.

Steve

Here's 3.5X, the black dot is barely visible while there's and extra one lower

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Exactly, plus if it comes back a 9 he's lost nothing.

True!! It did not occur to me it could come back something other than a 10 or altered (but I am not that smart to begin with!). And I guess if it comes back altered, or a 8 or 9, he cracks a resubmits, over and over until he gets the 10 or gives up. Perhaps that is what happened.

Ok Peter, I am convinced. It’s not PSA on this one; at least they were not knowingly involved.

[MULLINS5]

When you're making money this easy, $3k ain't nothing to roll the dice on. My money is on PSA NOT being a knowing party to the fraud.

[Bpm0014]

He only has to make it work 1 time in 8 for this to pay off.

"Pot odds..."

[sportscardtheory]

Some rose-colored glasses up in here. The core reason for PSA and BGS' existance is keeping their customers safe from fraud. lol 'This is fine' comes to mind. As if these companies will police themselves.

[oldjudge]

You get a flu shot every year to minimize your chance of getting the flu. You don't smoke (hopefully) to minimize your chance of getting heart and respiratory disease. You wear a seat belt to minimize your chance of getting killed in an auto accident. Nothing completely eliminates bad outcomes; you can, however, reduce the probability of them happening. Grading cards substantially reduces the chance of getting doctored cards; it does not eliminate it. Procedures will improve over time to reduce the probability of getting a doctored card still further. However, like in the prior examples, the probability will never go to zero. If you can live with that great. If not, you will never be happy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jay perhaps but they've been doing this for 28 years now. What's your basis for thinking things are improving? For me these revelations are confirming my wildest fears.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You get a flu shot every year to minimize your chance of getting the flu. You don't smoke (hopefully) to minimize your chance of getting heart and respiratory disease. You wear a seat belt to minimize your chance of getting killed in an auto accident. Nothing completely eliminates bad outcomes; you can, however, reduce the probability of them happening. Grading cards substantially reduces the chance of getting doctored cards; it does not eliminate it. Procedures will improve over time to reduce the probability of getting a doctored card still further. However, like in the prior examples, the probability will never go to zero. If you can live with that great. If not, you will never be happy.

Procedures will also improve over time to increase the probability of getting a doctored card past the graders. But everything happening now is small potatoes compared to what eventually kills off the TPG business and probably the hobby itself -- AI and 3D printing technology advanced enough to fabricate new "old" cards identical to the actual old cards. It's not as though the molecules that make up a T206 Wagner are particularly scarce on our planet. At that point though I guess we'll have bigger problems to worry about.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You get a flu shot every year to minimize your chance of getting the flu. You don't smoke (hopefully) to minimize your chance of getting heart and respiratory disease. You wear a seat belt to minimize your chance of getting killed in an auto accident. Nothing completely eliminates bad outcomes; you can, however, reduce the probability of them happening. Grading cards substantially reduces the chance of getting doctored cards; it does not eliminate it. Procedures will improve over time to reduce the probability of getting a doctored card still further. However, like in the prior examples, the probability will never go to zero. If you can live with that great. If not, you will never be happy.

Nail Squarely Hit!

Steve

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

You get a flu shot every year to minimize your chance of getting the flu. You don't smoke (hopefully) to minimize your chance of getting heart and respiratory disease. You wear a seat belt to minimize your chance of getting killed in an auto accident. Nothing completely eliminates bad outcomes; you can, however, reduce the probability of them happening. Grading cards substantially reduces the chance of getting doctored cards; it does not eliminate it. Procedures will improve over time to reduce the probability of getting a doctored card still further. However, like in the prior examples, the probability will never go to zero. If you can live with that great. If not, you will never be happy.

Present, ever growing list of doctored cards, notwithstanding...