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#1
06-06-2019, 11:45 AM
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Great write up... here is how I see it playing out.
TPGs - will take a hit and have to rework standards and procedures if they want to stat afloat. They have a deep pockets thought, so I think they take a hit but survive PWCC - i cant not imagine how this business stays afloat. Once this train, which seems pretty isolated to Net54, BO, sportscardradio and a few others pieces in the Oregonian gains some national steam and publicity, picks up speed they will be toast. Hard to imagine anyone owning big, valuable cards consigns to PWCC (unless those cards are altered and they are trying to sell them). We have just scratched the surface on this scandal... we have a long way to go and each day is another day of computational damage and cost for PWCC. Adios and good riddance. Gary Moser - death penalty The rest - I am strongly considering selling out completely. While I love collecting it is getting to a point where it is not worth the headache. I could see myself going back to the very beginning of collecting, putting together hand collated sets, busting newly released was and enjoying the more simpler parts of the hobby vs. dropping thousands of dollars on Ruths, Cobbs and JJs which I have spent the last 5 years doing. I could see others following suit... One thing I am happy for is this community. I am sure there are a few bad apples lurking among us but there are guys on here who have taken time out of their personal professional lives to give advice and lend a hand. Specially, Orlando, Jeffrey Lichtman and Greg from BOTN. 
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#2
06-06-2019, 11:50 AM
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nice write up...here's what I HOPE will happen:
PWCC will be toast...and brent will do jail time Moser will be charged and arrested and WILL do jail time PSA will be forced to bring their techniques into the 21st century and will become better at what they purport to provide Leon/Net54 will try to do what is best for the hobby he claims to love and not whats best for his wallet
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#3
06-06-2019, 11:59 AM
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I see this being a blip for a couple months and then disappearing. The vast majority of collectors and PWCC/PSA/etc customers will not even be aware of this issue. I don't see any jail time for anyone and only a short-term financial hit for anyone. Gary Moser will continue his operation, he'll just hide his submissions better.
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#4
06-06-2019, 12:15 PM
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I think PWCC is in big trouble, and a couple of people may find themselves in legal trouble. Their reputation may go the way of Mastro.
PSA will be hurt but will be okay. There will be grading changes. I think this will damage high grade cards in the hobby, as there will always be serious questions about them. I think for a lot of super high grade Pre-War cards, and many other cards, the rote opinion is that the card is or likely is altered. I think these "conservation" and "hobby maturation" theorists who post on the boards are full of it. If a card has been "conserved" the conservation has to be labeled. The Comic grading, which may be fine with comic collectors, does not apply to baseball cards and never will. I bet in the future there will be real technology to identify altered cards, and cards that have been altered will be identified. Last edited by drcy; 06-06-2019 at 12:19 PM.
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#5
06-06-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets
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#6
06-06-2019, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
You didn't ask but you're gonna get the story anyway... Roughly a decade ago, Burger King partnered up with Fox and did a "Simpsonize Me" web site. You submitted a picture of yourself and it would turn you into a Simpsons character. Or YOUR FREAKING CO-WORKER submitted a picture of you and then EMAILS IT TO YOUR ENTIRE TEAM. Guess which happened with me  Anyway, I took a look at it and, well, it looks a lot like me in a caricature kind of way. And so it has become my avatar on most message boards.
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#7
06-06-2019, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets
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#8
06-06-2019, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Post the results.
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/
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#9
06-06-2019, 12:19 PM
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What I would like to see out of this is the third party graders getting significantly better at what they do. The idea of examining cards and rejecting those that are altered, and being an unbiased third party opinion for grading, should be lauded by every collector. But the way they actually do this is nothing short of atrocious. If they don't start getting exceptionally skilled at detecting alterations, and extremely accurate in grading baseball cards, then the hobby has no use for them. Screw the set registry and let them go out of business. I hope they take this seriously but I am not holding my breath.
And if they have to reimburse every collector who has an altered card in a holder, they will go bankrupt halfway through the process. So they are going to lawyer up and fight these claims very strongly. I have no idea how that will end up but it may leave many collectors frustrated and angry. PWCC will either straighten up or lose a lot of business. And card doctors need to be prosecuted. It might be difficult to convict them, but we shall see. Overall, I suspect we will all be pretty disappointed at how little changes, and high grade cards will likely continue to set world records as buyers won't be able to throw money at them fast enough.
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#10
06-06-2019, 12:43 PM
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I don't think any of us can really tell what will happen with Moser, PWCC and the other card doctors outed by these recent revelations. I would hope that some branch of law enforcement somewhere will take action against them but I am not holding my breath. I've delivered even worse financial fraud cases to local prosecutors and have only one scumbag's scalp to show for it thus far. They don't like white collar crime, especially when the proof is specialized and esoteric.
PSA will probably have to increase its loss reserves substantially and will take some short term financial pain, but will go on as the main TPG brand. Too much registry participation and investment (emotional and financial) to realistically assume otherwise. AHs and Dealers will stay with TPGs because it is financially expedient. PSA will somehow find a way to pass on the costs to us because it can. Lunch at the National will be as well attended as ever, the food will be inedible swill, the speakers self-serving and dull, and the give-away will sell on eBay. Same as it ever was. Some collectors will shift away from big dollar purchases based solely on the flips; I know quite a few collectors who vow to stop upgrading their registry sets and are considering liquidating the ones they have. I suspect that sentiment will ebb over time. Some collectors will stop sending in cards to play grade lotto. I suspect that will ebb over time as well. Ditto those who vow to go with raw cards. In short, I don't see much changing overall.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-06-2019 at 12:44 PM.
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#11
06-06-2019, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-06-2019 at 12:54 PM.
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#12
06-06-2019, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
I have posted more in the last 2 weeks than I ever have on the Main Board, with the faint hope of getting the word out there. I pray that law enforcement sees enough of our threads to actually do something, but am not optimistic. Most people outside of the hobby just don't care, and the heavy hitters within the hobby are too protective of their "assets" to want any positive change. PSA's pathetic Letter confirmed they do not care about the hobby or hobbyists... just their shareholders and profits. They positioned themselves as "the victim", rather than owning up to any mistakes whatsoever. So perhaps the best thing we can do is to stop funneling money to these people, as it just feeds more into their power. I personally will be cracking out every PSA Card I have, and will never submit a card to them. When the time comes to liquidate, my cards will all go to someone like Greg Morris... RAW.
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#13
06-06-2019, 12:46 PM
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From the consumer end only those affected and have skin in the game will be impacted by the headaches of returns to sellers and or reviews by TPG's. Bystanders will continue to chime in on social media.
I think it is very clear from the statements given that there isn't a clear stance on liability. The business side is not impacted. This will all disappear in a few months and those consumers with skin in the game will be exhausted and or still fighting their claims independently. Nothing changes with TPG's or consignment groups. It will take deep pockets to bring a case on behalf of consumers at this point. Who's willing to step up and provide their legal services? Last edited by Goudey77; 06-06-2019 at 12:47 PM.
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#14
06-06-2019, 12:53 PM
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Very little will happen except an official banishment from the card doctor, which only means he will use fronts and aliases to circumvent the ban and continue his work.
PSA has a well established history of sweeping every scandal under the rug with virtually no transparency. As I recall Joe Orlando once stated that only 5% of the collectors read message boards, so they operate on the "ignorance is bliss" business model.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
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#15
06-06-2019, 01:02 PM
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The theme so far is that none of us expect too much to change. Hopefully we will at least see something. Better quality grading and authenticating would be a terrific place to start.
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#16
06-06-2019, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/
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#17
06-06-2019, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Bring their techniques into the 21st century? What does that have to do with anything?
__________________
R0b G0ul3t Visit www.feltfootball.com the largest pennant gallery on the internet
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#18
06-06-2019, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
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#19
06-06-2019, 08:18 PM
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Some predictions:
PSA will take a hit, but will make it through OK. They will continue to be the TPG of choice for most. For a while. Another entrant will emerge in the TPG space, utilizing machine learning and computer vision. They will threaten PSAs market dominance. SGC will slug on and go from second to third behind the new entrant. Within nine months, PWCC will close it's doors, mostly because there are multiple alternatives to sellers both on and off of eBay that won't have this baggage. Unfortunately, no jail time. Moser will do time in jail and then re-emerge in the middle of some other scam. Like a poster said above, a leopard does not change it's spots.
__________________
Working Sets: Baseball- T206 SLers - Virginia League (-1) 1952 Topps - low numbers (-1) 1953 Topps (-91) 1954 Bowman (-3) 1964 Topps Giants auto'd (-2)
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