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  #1  
Old 05-28-2019, 06:38 AM
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bnorth bnorth is offline
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Is anyone making a list of all the scammers being exposed?

I might be movin' to Oregon soon
Just to conserve some cards
Trimming them up
Waxen it down
Sending in a little white box
I can sell through Pwcc
By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss,

Well I just might grow me some bees
But I'd leave the sweet stuff
For somebody else...
but then, on the other hand
I'd Keep the wax N' melt it down
Pour it on the cards N' swish it aroun'

Movin' to Oregon soon
Gonna be a card conservation tycoon
(yes I am)
Movin' to Oregon soon
Just me and my pygmy pony.

Last edited by bnorth; 05-28-2019 at 07:16 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Is anyone making a list of all the scammers being exposed?
No, but I plan to make a directory of the related threads as a public service.
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  #3  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Is anyone making a list of all the scammers being exposed?

I might be movin' to Oregon soon
Just to conserve some cards
Trimming them up
Waxen it down
Sending in a little white box
I can sell through Pwcc
By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss,

Well I just might grow me some bees
But I'd leave the sweet stuff
For somebody else...
but then, on the other hand
I'd Keep the wax N' melt it down
Pour it on the cards N' swish it aroun'

Movin' to Montana soon
Gonna be a card conservation tycoon
(yes I am)
Movin' to Montana soon
Just me and my pygmy pony.
Frank would have loved it. And unlike David's 4 to 1, I figure the odds [of an indictment] be 50-50.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-28-2019 at 07:15 AM.
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  #4  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Frank would have loved it. And unlike David's 4 to 1, I figure the odds [of an indictment] be 50-50.
I am more at 50-1 myself. This has been going on way too long and almost everyone is in on it. The Masto thing scared a few out of the business but the big scammers just got bigger. They(scammers) also learned from that, that almost no one cares.

I honestly think there is 1 guy that could take them all down if he was ever busted. He seems to be connected to all the big scammers but you would have to get by his lawyer first.
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  #5  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:41 AM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
4:1 odds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I figure the odds [of an indictment] be 50-50.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
I am more at 50-1 myself.
Odds all over the place. What does Vegas say?
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  #6  
Old 05-28-2019, 03:55 PM
chalupacollects chalupacollects is offline
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[QUOTE=bnorth;1881799]Is anyone making a list of all the scammers being exposed?

There is a "sticky" thread on BO that has links to all these threads to make it easier to find them. Its under the member sales, trade feedback area...
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  #7  
Old 05-28-2019, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalupacollects View Post
There is a "sticky" thread on BO that has links to all these threads to make it easier to find them. Its under the member sales, trade feedback area...
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1289859
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Last edited by T206Collector; 05-28-2019 at 04:02 PM.
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  #8  
Old 05-28-2019, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by T206Collector View Post
Appreciated the post comparing the situation at hand to the movie, The Big Short.
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  #9  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
David I know they concluded that, and I do recall he admitted subbing the DiMaggio card, but I can't recall all the steps in their reasoning. But he clearly knew what this individual did to cards, I can attest to that myself from conversations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
I have asked multiple times for proof of this, but my requests have gone ignored. If it's been posted, then I simply overlooked it so please re-post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T206Collector View Post
There is no cliff notes version of this. It's extensive, some of it is complicated, portions of it are speculative but there's often good reason for that speculation, a lot of it is still "circumstantial" because OBVIOUSLY no one is going to directly admit to trimming cards on a message board. However, the pictures speak for themselves. There are HUNDREDS of them, across all sports and non-sports, vintage and modern.

Using the the slab numbers of those that are pretty clearly trimmed, leads to other slabs numbered close to those, which at least at some level casts some doubt over those other cards. Not conclusive, maybe not even circumstantial, but certainly questionable.

There is also extensive work done that indicates specific buyers of certain cards, particularly from prior PWCC auctions, that then came back into later PWCC auctions with higher grades and updated flowery descriptions. Since we don't know who the consigners were, and OBVIOUSLY PWCC isn't going to tell us that, it's still circumstantial at best. The SPECULATION is that possibly those cards were busted out of the cases, sent back raw to PWCC to be submitted to PSA for grading, and then coming back in the new better cases and FREQUENTLY given the PQ/HE stickers.

PWCC appears to admit knowing who some of these people are, and admitting to having done business with them in the past in their tenets thread. PWCC in their video said "pictures are not evidence", which is just a silly thing to say, especially considering earlier on in March-May PWCC had taken down some auctions when they were identified as trimmed USING PICTURES. They've also said they don't know who the consignors are when the stickers are given out, but that just doesn't ring true and has been refuted by at least one consignor.

If you prefer to play lawyer, then I guess there's some scenario that can be created where PWCC didn't know anything and is really a victim here. Maybe there's a scenario where PSA/BGS didn't really know these people either. However, the volume that's been discovered thus far is pretty overwhelming, and it's not a huge leap of logic to believe there is very likely much more out there to be discovered.

I suspect it will take some legal authorities to get involved to accelerate the discovery and get to the funds flow, but based on what has been found thus far it's not hard to imagine there's a lot more interaction between the TPGs, PWCC and the bad actors than anyone is currently letting on. Give it time.

This is NOT going away. Go read just some of those threads and try to convince yourself that these "investigators" sound like they're just planning to drop all this at some point. Not gonna happen.
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  #10  
Old 05-29-2019, 01:37 AM
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Posting on this for the first time, and appreciate all the undercover work over on BO, plus having the folks here link to (and consequently introduce me to) BO. Like all who love this hobby, I'm sickened. What I cannot understand is how people cannot see cards that do not fit into the holder, especially modern cards.

Having said that, and in advance I want to commend corndog on BO on the time and effort he and others are putting into this. I have, however, to question this Gehrig card:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109

While there are many, many similarities between the two items pictured, I wonder how the white print dots appear on the "conserved" card, at the right top of his forehead, plus on the brim of the cap. Further, there appears to be a nick in the top of the card just left of center. These types of things would not be the types of things that a card doctor would add.

Not trying to defend anyone involved in this scam, but treat this as I need help understanding.

The other part that really has me fearful of the breadth and depth of this fraud is the Parkhurst wresting card. I mean, if those cards are being doctored, there is no limit to the amount of potential fraud.

Bob
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Last edited by Stampsfan; 05-29-2019 at 01:38 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-29-2019, 04:04 AM
Throttlesteer Throttlesteer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampsfan View Post

Having said that, and in advance I want to commend corndog on BO on the time and effort he and others are putting into this. I have, however, to question this Gehrig card:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109

While there are many, many similarities between the two items pictured, I wonder how the white print dots appear on the "conserved" card, at the right top of his forehead, plus on the brim of the cap. Further, there appears to be a nick in the top of the card just left of center. These types of things would not be the types of things that a card doctor would add.

Not trying to defend anyone involved in this scam, but treat this as I need help understanding.


Bob
It could be from the scanner and not on the card. The appear to be the same card given the identified and other characteristics of the card. The edge imperfections even match.
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2019, 04:28 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampsfan View Post
Posting on this for the first time, and appreciate all the undercover work over on BO, plus having the folks here link to (and consequently introduce me to) BO. Like all who love this hobby, I'm sickened. What I cannot understand is how people cannot see cards that do not fit into the holder, especially modern cards.

Having said that, and in advance I want to commend corndog on BO on the time and effort he and others are putting into this. I have, however, to question this Gehrig card:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109

While there are many, many similarities between the two items pictured, I wonder how the white print dots appear on the "conserved" card, at the right top of his forehead, plus on the brim of the cap. Further, there appears to be a nick in the top of the card just left of center. These types of things would not be the types of things that a card doctor would add.

Not trying to defend anyone involved in this scam, but treat this as I need help understanding.

The other part that really has me fearful of the breadth and depth of this fraud is the Parkhurst wresting card. I mean, if those cards are being doctored, there is no limit to the amount of potential fraud.

Bob
I certainly have doubts about individual cards, but there are 100's that leave no doubt, so not losing too much sleep over a few that are doubtful.
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:29 AM
chalupacollects chalupacollects is offline
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Having said that, and in advance I want to commend corndog on BO on the time and effort he and others are putting into this. I have, however, to question this Gehrig card:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109

While there are many, many similarities between the two items pictured, I wonder how the white print dots appear on the "conserved" card, at the right top of his forehead, plus on the brim of the cap. Further, there appears to be a nick in the top of the card just left of center. These types of things would not be the types of things that a card doctor would add.

Not trying to defend anyone involved in this scam, but treat this as I need help understanding. [/QUOTE]

Actually there have been a couple of Blowout threads where the "surgeons" have added or enhanced a defect to throw people off the scent. These "surgeons" know what they are doing and are scary good at it...
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  #14  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:30 AM
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It looks like the same card to me.....
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  #15  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampsfan View Post
Posting on this for the first time, and appreciate all the undercover work over on BO, plus having the folks here link to (and consequently introduce me to) BO. Like all who love this hobby, I'm sickened. What I cannot understand is how people cannot see cards that do not fit into the holder, especially modern cards.

Having said that, and in advance I want to commend corndog on BO on the time and effort he and others are putting into this. I have, however, to question this Gehrig card:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109

While there are many, many similarities between the two items pictured, I wonder how the white print dots appear on the "conserved" card, at the right top of his forehead, plus on the brim of the cap. Further, there appears to be a nick in the top of the card just left of center. These types of things would not be the types of things that a card doctor would add.

Not trying to defend anyone involved in this scam, but treat this as I need help understanding.

The other part that really has me fearful of the breadth and depth of this fraud is the Parkhurst wresting card. I mean, if those cards are being doctored, there is no limit to the amount of potential fraud.

Bob
In the case of the '34 Gehrig, it is just glare from the plastic holder. Obviously the same card (before and after), as are all of the examples presented in which PSA has failed. Not a good time to diminish the meticulous work that's being done for the good of the hobby, or bury our heads in the sand.
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  #16  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:02 AM
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The answer is simple enough:

--Stop dealing with PWCC;
--Stop dealing with PSA;
--Cancel your VCP subscription.

And let the latter two know why.
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  #17  
Old 05-30-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
... Not a good time to diminish the meticulous work that's being done for the good of the hobby, or bury our heads in the sand.
If that’s the message you got out of my post then it’s time for you to take a functional literacy comprehension course.
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2019, 04:05 PM
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https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1276110&page=4
Superior Sports (Sliheets in Dallas)

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1255123
BuyNiceCards (E Bitz) - White Knights on Page 12, 14 defending Bitz.

I know there are some more, but those threads go on for ever. Would be nice if they had a pinned thread for all Banned usernames and what thread they were banned for... ;-)
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Last edited by swarmee; 05-28-2019 at 04:17 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:39 PM
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Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1276110&page=4
Superior Sports (Sliheets in Dallas)

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1255123
BuyNiceCards (E Bitz) - White Knights on Page 12, 14 defending Bitz.

I know there are some more, but those threads go on for ever. Would be nice if they had a pinned thread for all Banned usernames and what thread they were banned for... ;-)
Thanks John!
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