Conservation vs restoration defined by other genres of collectibles

[Goudey77]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You're totally wrong IMO. As long as there is a large price differential between original and restored there is a huge incentive to try to deceive, to get the original not the restored designation. Why can't you see this, everyone else can. You keep asserting it in mantra like fashion and just ignore the logic on the other side.

Peter,

I get what you are saying. I won't argue that price gap. But this comes down to better analysis of cards and identifying restorations. Also defining tolerances so we can clearly address before and after photos popping up on message boards claiming fraud. TPG's simply need to take a stance. PWCC tenets did this.

CGC took a stance and it became a big part of their everyday operations. Who here questions card TPG's ability to do the same.

Ask a comic book veteran if they think a comic restoration expert can slip a book past CGC graders into the un-restored blue label.

Ask a sports card hobby veteran the same question about PSA or SGC.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

Peter,

I get what you are saying. I won't argue that price gap. But this comes down to better analysis of cards and identifying restorations. Also defining tolerances so we can clearly address before and after photos popping up on message boards claiming fraud. TPG's simply need to take a stance. PWCC tenets did this.

CGC took a stance and it became a big part of their everyday operations. Who here questions card TPG's ability to do the same.

Ask a comic book veteran if they think a comic restoration expert can slip a book past CGC graders into the un-restored blue label.

Ask a sports card hobby veteran the same question about PSA or SGC.

I think PSA's current standards reflect, with some gray area perhaps around the edges, the collective hobby ethos of what is and is not acceptable. I see no need for any change to that. I don't think PWCC's proposals to change standards, leaving aside my personal sense of their disingenuousness, are helpful. The key is to improve detection and discourage card doctors and their enablers. Anyhow, I keep saying this so I'll stop.

[Goudey77]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think PSA's current standards reflect, with some gray area perhaps around the edges, the collective hobby ethos of what is and is not acceptable. I see no need for any change to that. I don't think PWCC's proposals to change standards, leaving aside my personal sense of their disingenuousness, are helpful. The key is to improve detection and discourage card doctors and their enablers. Anyhow, I keep saying this so I'll stop.

Glad you finally agree to what i've been saying Peter.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

Glad you finally agree to what i've been saying Peter.

I've said this till I'm blue in the face all along, I have no idea what you're talking about but whatever.

[drcy]

Duly note that I live in and am posting from the Pacific Northwest

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by drcy

Duly note that I live in and am posting from the Pacific Northwest

If we are fully disclosing, I was in Lake Oswego a month ago and a month and a half ago. Did not see anyone associated with PWCC as far as I know. Didn't see the Gangster from West Linn either.