PWCC planning to redefine the difference between altered and conserved in cards

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's not just the pressing out of corners, it's a global contempt for the collective ethos of the hobby on altered cards, in order to justify the sale of obviously altered cards. Let's be honest about this.

I disagree. They are trying to change the hobby for the better and, imo, misstepped on this one idea. There is no justification for pressing a cards corners out after soaking it. It all goes back to changing the card. Don't change it and I am ok with it. If it came from the factory with thinner corners than the rest of the card then it would be fine. But as far as I know that isn't how any cards have been made.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I disagree. They are trying to change the hobby for the better and, imo, misstepped on this one idea. There is no justification for pressing a cards corners out after soaking it. It all goes back to changing the card. Don't change it and I am ok with it. If it came from the factory with thinner corners than the rest of the card then it would be fine. But as far as I know that isn't how any cards have been made.

They are trying to make as much money as possible, by whatever means, in my opinion. I don't see any other motive here. Not that there is anything wrong with trying to make money as long as you act ethically, but let's not get starry-eyed. PS If they want to improve the hobby maybe they should stop accepting consignments from certain people. They won't.

[Leon]

They are probably accepting graded cards from the big TPG's. Whose fault is that? I agree that there is too much crap going on but, you know better than i do, stuff trumps all. OF course they want to make money but I also believe Brent is thinking outside of the box on a lot of stuff. His museum idea and vault ideas might take off. It is early on but there are some wealthy folks eyeing it. Personally, I would love to seem some museum quality cards that are hidden away in safes.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They are trying to make as much money as possible, by whatever means, in my opinion. I don't see any other motive here. Not that there is anything wrong with trying to make money as long as you act ethically, but let's not get starry-eyed. PS If they want to improve the hobby maybe they should stop accepting consignments from certain people. They won't.

[Peter_Spaeth]

You and I both know what I am talking about in terms of accepting consignments from certain people. I'll leave it at that. Sure, the TPG flip gives them cover, but it's always been an open secret in this hobby who (at least some of) the major card doctors are. There's a new generation of them working the high ticket modern serial numbered inserts -- see Blowout's detective work on this -- but I am sure the big sellers know exactly who they are.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You and I both know what I am talking about in terms of accepting consignments from certain people. I'll leave it at that. Sure, the TPG flip gives them cover, but it's always been an open secret in this hobby who (at least some of) the major card doctors are. There's a new generation of them working the high ticket modern serial numbered inserts -- see Blowout's detective work on this -- but I am sure the big sellers know exactly who they are.

People laughed at Albert Einstein too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

People laughed at Albert Einstein too.

He would have run a relatively clean auction.

[steve B]

I think actual conservation is ok. Light surface cleaning if the card is really filthy, deacidifying for stuff like strip cards that won't make it another 90 years without it, that sort of thing.

Removing stains etc is to me where the slippery slope begins.

Pressing/trimming/rebuilding etc shouldn't be acceptable. I can see some exceptions, but they'd need a lot of transparency and disclosure. Even then, it's just way too likely it gets cracked out and regraded without disclosure.


Here's an example of what I believe is ok. This card was in a small paper bag with a stack of other cards, It stuck out, and got partway coated with soot and grime. It must have been in there for decades. I removed some of the surface grime with just a q tip and water. That sort of grime would eventually cause long term problems.

It still has a bit of grime in the tiny cracks that sometimes happen in the surface coating over time. I probably could have gotten that out too, but I think that would be going too far, and I was way too lazy to spend a few hours doing that.

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After

[ClementeFanOh]

I got the "relatively" in the Einstein remark, Peter!