UPDATED 5/16: BEWARE PAYPAL CHARGEBACKS! If you sell on eBay, read this...

[bounce]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Have a few questions.

Have you reached out to the buyer to get his side of the story?

has paypal explained to you how they can place your funds on hold for Refund Not Received when there is no record of such a request having been made?

It must have been that the buyer contacted his financial institution and opened a dispute. If so he has lied to them because there is no proof that he has attempted to return the merchandise, at least as far as you have seen.

Yes, reached out to buyer via eBay message and the email address I got from Paypal. No reply to either as of right now. I also have a phone number, have not tried that yet.

Paypal was made aware that no request for refund had been made to me either via eBay or Paypal, which their reps have confirmed with me every time we've spoken. eBay rep also has confirmed no request for refund. This is one of my key questions - so if you know that a request for refund was not made, why would you agree to issue the refund? Even more, why would you agree to do that without requiring that return of the item when there is clear evidence that the item was indeed delivered and signed for?

Yes, buyer went through his "financial institution", Paypal has confirmed that is who was requesting return of the funds but they obviously won't tell me which institution that is. Paypal putting the funds on hold during the dispute process is normal, and while irritating it's not a big deal - people should get their opportunities to reply. However, subsequently deciding to remove the funds from me permanently despite the lack of the refund request, as well as in light of all the other information I provided showing delivery, signature, etc., and then not requiring the item to at least be returned is what is utterly confusing.

As if that's not enough, the case is still OPEN within Paypal. That's the only thing that gives me any hope, but then again why would the "financial institution" just back their customer if Paypal already gave them the money back? From their perspective, isn't it really Paypal's problem now? And while Paypal is "fighting for me", they're really just passing the buck to me to try and figure out some other way to collect since they gave the money back already.

[GeoPoto]

I'm not a lawyer, but the blatant injustice contained in PayPal's decision to renege on the receipt of funds notice that they knew you relied on, makes it hard to accept. PayPal abetted the buyer's fraudulent grasping of both the card and the cash. Since PayPal could easily confirm the available facts with eBay, they had no basis for accepting the dishonest claim.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by bounce

Yes, reached out to buyer via eBay message and the email address I got from Paypal. No reply to either as of right now. I also have a phone number, have not tried that yet.

Paypal was made aware that no request for refund had been made to me either via eBay or Paypal, which their reps have confirmed with me every time we've spoken. eBay rep also has confirmed no request for refund. This is one of my key questions - so if you know that a request for refund was not made, why would you agree to issue the refund? Even more, why would you agree to do that without requiring that return of the item when there is clear evidence that the item was indeed delivered and signed for?

Yes, buyer went through his "financial institution", Paypal has confirmed that is who was requesting return of the funds but they obviously won't tell me which institution that is. Paypal putting the funds on hold during the dispute process is normal, and while irritating it's not a big deal - people should get their opportunities to reply. However, subsequently deciding to remove the funds from me permanently despite the lack of the refund request, as well as in light of all the other information I provided showing delivery, signature, etc., and then not requiring the item to at least be returned is what is utterly confusing.

As if that's not enough, the case is still OPEN within Paypal. That's the only thing that gives me any hope, but then again why would the "financial institution" just back their customer if Paypal already gave them the money back? From their perspective, isn't it really Paypal's problem now? And while Paypal is "fighting for me", they're really just passing the buck to me to try and figure out some other way to collect since they gave the money back already.

David,

Once a buyer initiates a charge back with their credit card paypal immediately puts the squeeze on the seller. Paypal used to, and may still, urge buyers to initiate the dispute with them because they know sellers would be hesitant to use paypal knowing they cave at that point. A charge back should be a last resort for a buyer. Clearly your buyer is simply trying to defraud you by bypassing the policies in place that are there to protect buyer and seller. And yeah it is a HUGE loop hole in the protection that paypal offers sellers.

If paypal was really advocating for you all they would have to do is let the bank know that the buyer is in possession of the merchandise and never even asked to return it. It is pretty infuriating. Since it is no longer their money they are protecting I am sure their effort in this, unless you can get a sympathetic ear, is going to be minimal.

Chase

[drcy]

In small claims court, the positive feedback would be enough to win the case.

[CTDean]

David,
Reply sent. Let me know if you have any questions. As I mentioned, while you may want to hold the eBay ID private for awhile, it wouldn't hurt to throw out the City and State. Someone here may live close to the buyer. Check Craigslist in the buyers area for your card too.

[esd10]

If this person does receive the funds back without returning the merchandise I would consider this theft of goods and would file a police report.

[Mark17]

And if I was talking to some supervisor-level person at PayPal I would ask them if this is really a can of worms they wish to open. Because if this scam gains traction and becomes commonplace it could literally sink their company.

[yanks12025]

Paypal must have changed their policy recently.. Cause I had this same thing happen couple years ago for over $1,000.. I simply contacted PayPal, gave them the tracking number and showed that the item was delivered and signed for.. So they gave me my money back and was gonna fight the other parties back on their own.

[sterlingfox]

eBay is chock full of scammers.

Many years ago when I was selling PCs and Laptops, over the course of 14 months I had it happen to me SEVEN times for amounts between a few hundred to over $1000.

I won each and every Paypal case by providing the tracking number and a copy of the signature on file.

If this is Paypal's new policy, then it's time to jump ship!

[Tony Gordon]

I had the same thing happen to me but it was only a $30-dollar card. Paypal conducted their three-month investigation, ignored the tracking that showed the item was received, and sided with the buyer. I was out both the money and the card. I haven't listed much for sale on eBay after this.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And if I was talking to some supervisor-level person at PayPal I would ask them if this is really a can of worms they wish to open. Because if this scam gains traction and becomes commonplace it could literally sink their company.

Yea I agree. Something seems off. I have never heard of this policy or had this issue arise yet. It would seem to me that of someone bypasses the Ebay or PayPal claim system amd disputes a credit card transaction that should be between the buyer and PayPal. Isn't that why you pay the 3 or 4% fee?

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by esd10

If this person does receive the funds back without returning the merchandise I would consider this theft of goods and would file a police report.

+1

[ramram]

I just can’t imagine that Paypal/credit card company wouldn’t have complicity in the theft if they took the funds from you without any kind of proof that the card was returned to you.

Rob M

[Jim65]

As much as I hate to defend PayPal, if a buyer initiates a chargeback through their bank or credit card, it is up to that bank whether the chargeback goes through, PayPal is powerless. If PayPal takes the money from your bank, then you do have recourse through your bank. If they seize your PayPal account, you're screwed.

I speak from experience, unfortunately.

[jbbama]

This kind of scenario really sucks, i hate that you have to deal with this BS. Just an FYI for anyone here, NEVER, NEVER, leave large amounts of money in your paypal account. Also, have that account tied to something other than your primary checking or savings account. Yes, paypal can "freeze your account" until resolved, but at least they dont have your money...you do! I learned this lesson the hard way several years back. Go get 'em......

[Baseball Fan]

Originally Posted by jbbama

This kind of scenario really sucks, i hate that you have to deal with this BS. Just an FYI for anyone here, NEVER, NEVER, leave large amounts of money in your paypal account. Also, have that account tied to something other than your primary checking or savings account. Yes, paypal can "freeze your account" until resolved, but at least they dont have your money...you do! I learned this lesson the hard way several years back. Go get 'em......

Quick question. What could the account be tied to if not checking or savings? I would possibly like to make this change due to this thread.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jbbama

This kind of scenario really sucks, i hate that you have to deal with this BS. Just an FYI for anyone here, NEVER, NEVER, leave large amounts of money in your paypal account. Also, have that account tied to something other than your primary checking or savings account. Yes, paypal can "freeze your account" until resolved, but at least they dont have your money...you do!

This. I have a dedicated checking account tied to PayPal and whenever it has more than a hundred bucks I sweep the excess to a savings account that is not tied into PayPal. If I sell something big that money goes right to the savings account and does not linger in my PayPal account or the dedicated checking account.