T206 Honus Wagner - Not For Sale

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by peter_spaeth

damn it's sure annoying when potential buyers ask for more information. I empathize.

right!!!!!!

[GottaHaveRockandRoll]

The card is not for sale I apologize

[ullmandds]

if I were spending 3/4 million on a card...let alone $1000...I'd want a high resolution scan of the front and the back!

As a former chess champion I'm sure you can figure out how to do that????

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Corporal Lance Boil

That thread is an interesting read, and certainly worth a look. I won't link to another site but its' under Member/Trades Feedback and references a 25K Jordan collection. Due diligence.

Just went over to BO and read the thread. It is well worth your time to check out. Too bad that taking pictures of the several 52 Mantles he found would harm the cards. I know I would like to see some pics of them.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by biggsdaddycool

100%. Once a card has been altered there is no way to unalter it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why is that the case? If whatever was added to the card has been removed such that there is no remaining trace, why should going forward the card continue to be regarded as altered? Or is the comment meant to mean that as a practical matter, it is impossible to so completely remove what was added that there will always remain traces?

[MichelaiTorres83]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Damn it's sure annoying when potential buyers ask for more information. I empathize.

I certianly agree with your subtle humor and slight towards the situation but I also believe you made the opposite point as well.

How many are 'potential'? Let's be honest. Almost for certian 0 of everyone.

I believe that most of the questions are not from interested buyers. They are simply people interested or people that have nothing better to do than to try to poke holes in the person's story.

I can understand how that is burdensome when you have such an interesting item and you have stuff to do. I have definitely tried to sell things and been bombarded with increased activity from sources I was certain would never pan out. Especially if the motivation to sell is low. You want people that are qualified, interested and capable only.

It is unfair to question the level of motivation of the seller.
My guess is that it's a new experience for the seller.

[ullmandds]

here you go gentlemen!

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by GottaHaveRockandRoll

I am extremely busy right now and cannot be responding to the forum 24/7.

Ok, so you have a graded copy of the most iconic baseball card in the world, which you would like to sell to someone for more than twice the value of my house. But you don't have time to respond to questions or craft a reasonable or intelligent sounding summary of the card's provenance which does not lead to tons of follow-up questions. Okie dok.

Also - sale price here is $715K but in Rich's article $450K?

At a minimum some high-res scans would be in order to be taken seriously. Those that I've seen so far in this forum suck.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83

I certianly agree with your subtle humor and slight towards the situation but I also believe you made the opposite point as well.

How many are 'potential'? Let's be honest. Almost for certian 0 of everyone.

I believe that most of the questions are not from interested buyers. They are simply people interested or people that have nothing better to do than to try to poke holes in the person's story.

I can understand how that is burdensome when you have such an interesting item and you have stuff to do. I have definitely tried to sell things and been bombarded with increased activity from sources I was certain would never pan out. Especially if the motivation to sell is low. You want people that are qualified, interested and capable only.

It is unfair to question the level of motivation of the seller.
My guess is that it's a new experience for the seller.

He chose to come here to advertise. I really don't get your point.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Or is the comment meant to mean that as a practical matter, it is impossible to so completely remove what was added that there will always remain traces?

This, I would think. Undoing "paint" is going to leave some traces of paint or damage regardless on a very thin and delicate, 100+ year old piece of cardboard.

[ullmandds]

slightly better?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Because the reversal didn’t fool psa.

Now now, we all know the only person who can fool PSA is Bill Mastro...

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

slightly better?

No. Looks to me like the same scan from earlier enlarged. If it's not high-res from the get go, it never will be just manipulating the first image.

[MichelaiTorres83]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He chose to come here to advertise. I really don't get your point.

I don't know what to make of you not getting it.

Surely you can see the argument in my statement, right?

Is it that you just don't believe there may be a less than overly ambitious Wagner owner on his Ps and Qs that wants every bit of attention he can get for his listing?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He chose to come here to advertise. I really don't get your point.

+1.

If this were a major auction house offering that card, it would have detailed high-res scans and a nice write-up. The description we got - at least at first - would probably not hold up to some of the '55 Bowman commons I sold on eBay last year.

[RedsFan1941]

welcome to the net54 tire kickers convention

[MichelaiTorres83]

Ok. Poll. How many people here have the money to buy the card?

[MichelaiTorres83]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

welcome to the net54 tire kickers convention

Exactly. I don't believe the seller is interested in spending his time explaining tires to people that kick them.

[GottaHaveRockandRoll]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

+1.

If this were a major auction house offering that card, it would have detailed high-res scans and a nice write-up. The description we got - at least at first - would probably about match up to some of the '55 Bowman commons I sold on eBay last year.

The card is not for sale I apologize

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83

I don't know what to make of you not getting it.

Surely you can see the argument in my statement, right?

Is it that you just don't believe there may be a less than overly ambitious Wagner owner on his Ps and Qs that wants every bit of attention he can get for his listing?

To my mind it's pretty hard to casually and indifferently list a Wagner and just get annoyed by questions because the questions are from tire kickers anyhow. But maybe. Then again he had the same attitude about a substantially less pricey Jordan collection. People were annoying him with questions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83

Exactly. I don't believe the seller is interested in spending his time explaining tires to people that kick them.

And he knows who here has the money and who doesn't how?

[jchcollins]

This whole thread is most amusing to me. Are you kidding? No, I don't have the money to buy that card. If it were bought by a card company and chopped into a million pieces to make memorabilia cards out of, I wouldn't have enough money to buy even THAT card.

But my aproach was kind of like I post a lot here, and you are going to have to suffer my opinions and questions, lol...Sorry.

[GottaHaveRockandRoll]

The card is not for sale I apologize

[pawpawdiv9]

A tip in posting pics:
I use this trick-- [img]XXXX[/img]
Most times it will put a large pic in the message. Just past the image where i put the X's.
Maybe it helps or it doesnt, but may help others here too.

[MichelaiTorres83]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And he knows who here has the money and who doesn't how?

Does he need to, "Man"?

Anyone with a small amount of reasoning logic can deduce that 99 percent of the population can't afford the card and he is getting enough attention to simply know that most people asking him questions are not buyers. Even if they were, would they be on here dropping public messages about how much coin they may drop on a single card?

That is common sense. No need to posture further and dive into the minutia that is irrelevant.

We are all guilty of commenting and asking questions on a thread(this one) that we are not going to be buyers on. Maybe the right place is on the general forum topic and not in his BST thread.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by GottaHaveRockandRoll

I love the questions and I will do my best to answer them. But its like if I dont respond instantly you call me a scammer, a liar, this is not legit. Like man, I work for a super well respected company. GottaHaveIt!. We've been in business for 25+ years. I am just the middle man trying to share our items and we are looking to sell. In fact, the card would be graded a 4 if it didnt have the alter tag on it. Thats why the asking price is higher, because you are getting a super great card for a discounted price. A PSA 4 Wagner goes for 2 million+ you know.

Understand that many people here are more used to lauging over amusing stories of fake Wagners that people are trying to sell on eBay than we are having a legit, PSA authenticated one offered to us for sale in our own forum. So at a minimum it's odd and you are going to get odd, pointed, and tongue-in-cheek questions. Those that I did see that were not bad jokes were people asking legit questions as to the current slab status of the card, asking for scans, and things like that. Who called you a liar?

That card is not a PSA 4 in a million years. The corners are beyond rounded, they are rounded off. Corners on a 4 can be moderately worn, but nowhere near that bad. Also may be worth pointing out that earlier in this thread you said the card was a PSA 2? Uh.....which is it? There is of course going to be a ton of $ value difference between those grades on any legit copy of the most valuable card in the world being sold - but you knew that right?

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by GottaHaveRockandRoll

I love the questions and I will do my best to answer them. But its like if I dont respond instantly you call me a scammer, a liar, this is not legit. Like man, I work for a super well respected company. GottaHaveIt!. We've been in business for 25+ years. I am just the middle man trying to share our items and we are looking to sell. In fact, the card would be graded a 4 if it didnt have the alter tag on it. Thats why the asking price is higher, because you are getting a super great card for a discounted price. A PSA 4 Wagner goes for 2 million+ you know.

I hate to break it to you. No way that card grades a 4 unless it's in a BCCG slab. I do wish you luck on the sale.

[ezez420]

I will say I saw the card in person at the store. Yes it exists.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Throttlesteer]

If nothing else, it's cool to see. It's not another Grandpa's attic find, sick patch, unknown authenticity, own-a-piece-of-history, feels old card.

[GottaHaveRockandRoll]

I am going to post more pictures later today

[Yastrzemski Sports]

The problem is that the op failed to follow the 7 p’s: Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. The T206 Wagner and Joe Jackson gamer are holy grails. Probably a good first step is to contact Leon to see if it’s ok to post such a magnificent and expensive item on the board. Have him back you and verify the item and list properly with all the details. Then instead of questions and doubt he would be getting oohs and aahs and probably a couple of legit offers. You throw them out without doing your due diligence (or even a photo) and then tell some confusing story about the card being painted and cracked our of the holder and you get what you get. When you are representing items of such importance you have to bring your A-Game. Now would be a good time for a do-over. Try that again like you have a million dollar listing - because you do.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

The problem is that the op failed to follow the 7 p’s: Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. The T206 Wagner and Joe Jackson gamer are holy grails. Probably a good first step is to contact Leon to see if it’s ok to post such a magnificent and expensive item on the board. Have him back you and verify the item and list properly with all the details. Then instead of questions and doubt he would be getting oohs and aahs and probably a couple of legit offers. You throw them out without doing your due diligence (or even a photo) and then tell some confusing story about the card being painted and cracked our of the holder and you get what you get. When you are representing items of such importance you have to bring your A-Game. Now would be a good time for a do-over. Try that again like you have a million dollar listing - because you do.

Agreed.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Damn it's sure annoying when potential buyers ask for more information. I empathize.

I highly doubt any of those asking for more pictures in the thread are actually interested in buying this card. If I was in the market for a 600 or 700k altered Wagner I would have contacted the seller directly and asked for better scans. And if I were selling this I also would not waste my time answering the trolls.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I highly doubt any of those asking for more pictures in the thread are actually interested in buying this card. If I was in the market for a 600 or 700k altered Wagner I would have contacted the seller directly and asked for better scans. And if I were selling this I also would not waste my time answering the trolls.

True, but if you post that card in that manner in this forum, the response he got was not at all surprising.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

The problem is that the op failed to follow the 7 p’s: Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. The T206 Wagner and Joe Jackson gamer are holy grails. Probably a good first step is to contact Leon to see if it’s ok to post such a magnificent and expensive item on the board. Have him back you and verify the item and list properly with all the details. Then instead of questions and doubt he would be getting oohs and aahs and probably a couple of legit offers. You throw them out without doing your due diligence (or even a photo) and then tell some confusing story about the card being painted and cracked our of the holder and you get what you get. When you are representing items of such importance you have to bring your A-Game. Now would be a good time for a do-over. Try that again like you have a million dollar listing - because you do.

yup!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by GottaHaveRockandRoll

In fact, the card would be graded a 4 if it didnt have the alter tag on it. Thats why the asking price is higher, because you are getting a super great card for a discounted price. A PSA 4 Wagner goes for 2 million+ you know.

You're confusing facts with ignorant opinions...

[rats60]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I highly doubt any of those asking for more pictures in the thread are actually interested in buying this card. If I was in the market for a 600 or 700k altered Wagner I would have contacted the seller directly and asked for better scans. And if I were selling this I also would not waste my time answering the trolls.

I would hope that if you were in the market for a Wagner you would have bought an Altered one for 420K or an actual PSA 2 for 600k.

[barrysloate]

This is a card that would do great in an auction, but selling it on BST might not be the right fit. But you never know.

[GottaHaveRockandRoll]

Originally Posted by rats60

I would hope that if you were in the market for a Wagner you would have bought an Altered one for 420K or an actual PSA 2 for 600k.

PSA 2 is worth more like 850k+ now.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by GottaHaveRockandRoll

PSA 2 is worth more like 850k+ now.

It's back to being a PSA 2 now? I thought it was a 4.

[Jewish-collector]

There's been a few legit T206 Wagners on this B/S/T for sale over the years.

[GottaHaveRockandRoll]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

It's back to being a PSA 2 now? I thought it was a 4.

The card is not for sale I apologize

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by GottaHaveRockandRoll

PSA 2 is worth more like 850k+ now.

I am quite sure that there would be a wide range in what a psa 2 might sell for. A deal centered card that looked like a 4 or 5 but has a barely noticeable flaw might go for a mil or more. A beat up card that looked like it belonged in a 1 holder maybe 500 or 600k. A card that looks like it belongs in the 2 holder maybe 800 or 850. These are just made up estimates but I would expect the variance to be at least that if not much more.

[ClementeFanOh]

The ONLY way that card gets a 3 or 3.5 is if Mr. Magoo is the grader- careful, your credibility is in question....

[Luke]

Good luck with the sale, but it doesn't help your credibility to tell people that card would grade a 3 or 4. You may just not know that you're wrong, but everyone else on the forum knows you are. If you haven't sent any cards in to PSA in a few years and looked at the grades you received, it's probably best not to make any claims about what grade this card would get.

There's exactly 0.00% chance this card could get a 2.5 or better with those corners, assuming there was no alteration. I would take the the under on 1.75 personally.

It's a great card. No reason to lie or exaggerate to try and make it seem like more than it is.

Edited to add that I probably went a little harder than I needed to in the above post. The OP sent me a PM and said he was just comparing his card to another PSA 2 and his card looked better. That is certainly possible. This card could not get above a "2" because of the corners, but it's still a nice looking card. I have a bunch of PSA 2s with rounded corners that look great.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I just want to be able to say I commented on a T206 Wagner For Sale thread.

Me too. Wow.

[xplainer]

Jason Mars?

Ok, after reading the whole thread, everyone thinks this is a legit listing.
So, I withdraw, but leave posted, my comment.

[mrvster]

restored......then unrestored....

I have been following this card for almost 5 years.....

its been worked 2 x over......

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83

Ok. Poll. How many people here have the money to buy the card?

No one that has the money would answer your poll. I don't, btw.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Luke

Good luck with the sale, but it doesn't help your credibility to tell people that card would grade a 3 or 4. You may just not know that you're wrong, but everyone else on the forum knows you are. If you haven't sent any cards in to PSA in a few years and looked at the grades you received, it's probably best not to make any claims about what grade this card would get.

There's exactly 0.00% chance this card could get a 2.5 or better with those corners, assuming there was no alteration. I would take the the under on 1.75 personally.

It's a great card. No reason to lie or exaggerate to try and make it seem like more than it is.

Edited to add that I probably went a little harder than I needed to in the above post. The OP sent me a PM and said he was just comparing his card to another PSA 2 and his card looked better. That is certainly possible. This card could not get above a "2" because of the corners, but it's still a nice looking card. I have a bunch of PSA 2s with rounded corners that look great.

I have seen crazier things than a card that looks like this ending up in a 3 or 4 holder. From the 1 picture I've seen I agree 2 would be the most likely grade, assuming the card had not been altered.