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Reload this Page Poll: is Mariano Rivera one of the top 10 pitchers of all time?
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View Poll Results: Is Mariano Rivera among the top 10 pitchers of all time
Yes 52 14.17%
No 315 85.83%
Voters: 367. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 01-24-2019, 02:46 PM
doug.goodman doug.goodman is offline
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Originally Posted by oldjudge View Post
What I am telling you is that if I had one batter to get out and I could choose any pitcher to do it I would choose Mariano.
What I am telling you is that if YOU had a GAME you needed to win, and you could choose any pitcher, you WOULD NOT choose Mariano to be anywhere near the mound until after your team had played 8 innings AND given him a lead.
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:18 PM
packs packs is offline
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Originally Posted by doug.goodman View Post
What I am telling you is that if YOU had a GAME you needed to win, and you could choose any pitcher, you WOULD NOT choose Mariano to be anywhere near the mound until after your team had played 8 innings AND given him a lead.
Let me ask you something: do you win the game in the 9th inning or not?
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  #3  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:20 PM
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Let me ask you something: do you win the game in the 9th inning or not?
No more so than in any other inning.

3 in the first count the same as 3 in the ninth. Etc.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-24-2019 at 03:20 PM.
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  #4  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:22 PM
packs packs is offline
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No more so than in any other inning.

3 in the first count the same as 3 in the ninth. Etc.
Is that right? I don't remember a game ending after someone got 3 outs in the first inning.
Last edited by packs; 01-24-2019 at 03:22 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:32 PM
doug.goodman doug.goodman is offline
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Is that right? I don't remember a game ending after someone got 3 outs in the first inning.
But it could end in the 6th, and Mariano wouldn't be warmed up...

So I guess your point is that the 9th inning is more important than the 1st inning?

Ok.

I respectfully disagree.
Last edited by doug.goodman; 01-24-2019 at 03:32 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:33 PM
packs packs is offline
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My point is the 9th inning wins you the game. You can talk about the 6th inning all you want. You aren't going to win the game because someone pitched well 3 innings ago. You only win after the 9th.
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:48 PM
MichelaiTorres83 MichelaiTorres83 is offline
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My point is the 9th inning wins you the game. You can talk about the 6th inning all you want. You aren't going to win the game because someone pitched well 3 innings ago. You only win after the 9th.
You blew right past his point riding on top of a rocket ship. A game can be called after the 5th inning if the ump calls the game. Or the 6th, 7th, 8th and yes also 9th inning before the bottom of the inning.

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Last edited by MichelaiTorres83; 01-24-2019 at 03:51 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2019, 04:33 PM
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My point is the 9th inning wins you the game. You can talk about the 6th inning all you want. You aren't going to win the game because someone pitched well 3 innings ago. You only win after the 9th.
This argument leads to the conclusion that Mariano was over-utilized. He should have entered the game with the lead and two outs in the ninth. Instead of a one inning pitcher he could be immortalized as the 27th out pitcher. You can't win the game without the 27th out, right?
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  #9  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:34 PM
Ricky Ricky is offline
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packs, how do you think Rivera would have fared as a starting pitcher? How long would he have been able to maintain a peak performance as a starter? Would he have been as effective going 7 or 8 innings?

And, if you're all about the 9th inning, what if Rivera had pitched for a team that had the lead to protect much less frequently than the Yankees?
Last edited by Ricky; 01-24-2019 at 03:35 PM.
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  #10  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:36 PM
packs packs is offline
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packs, how do you think Rivera would have fared as a starting pitcher? How long would he have been able to maintain a peak performance as a starter? Would he have been as effective going 7 or 8 innings?

And, if you're all about the 9th inning, what if Rivera had pitched for a team that had the lead to protect much less frequently than the Yankees?
None of that matters. You don't win the game without closing out the 9th inning. The question is who is the pitcher you want on the mound for the most important inning of the game. The answer is Mariano Rivera.
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  #11  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:38 PM
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Yes, Rivera is the greatest one inning closer ever. We all agree on that. What we don't agree on is that he is the greatest pitcher of all time... or in the Top 10.
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:41 PM
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I would have these guys ahead of Rivera
Grover Alexander
Steve Carlton
Dizzy Dean
Bob Feller
Whitey Ford
Bob Gibson
Lefty Grove
Carl Hubbell
Randy Johnson
Walter Johnson
Sandy Koufax
Greg Maddux
Juan Marichal
Pedro Martinez
Christy Mathewson
Jim Palmer
Eddie Plank
Nolan Ryan
Tom Seaver
Warren Spahn
Cy Young

So #22 on my list.
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  #13  
Old 01-24-2019, 04:27 PM
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I would have these guys ahead of Rivera
Grover Alexander
Steve Carlton
Dizzy Dean
Bob Feller
Whitey Ford
Bob Gibson
Lefty Grove
Carl Hubbell
Randy Johnson
Walter Johnson
Sandy Koufax
Greg Maddux
Juan Marichal
Pedro Martinez
Christy Mathewson
Jim Palmer
Eddie Plank
Nolan Ryan
Tom Seaver
Warren Spahn
Cy Young

So #22 on my list.
Strange that that list doesn't even contain the best pitcher of all time Roger Clemens.

I agree that Rivera is not a top 20 pitcher of all time but he is by far the best reliever of all time.
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  #14  
Old 01-24-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
I would have these guys ahead of Rivera
Grover Alexander
Steve Carlton
Dizzy Dean
Bob Feller
Whitey Ford
Bob Gibson
Lefty Grove
Carl Hubbell
Randy Johnson
Walter Johnson
Sandy Koufax
Greg Maddux
Juan Marichal
Pedro Martinez
Christy Mathewson
Jim Palmer
Eddie Plank
Nolan Ryan
Tom Seaver
Warren Spahn
Cy Young

So #22 on my list.
I would go another 20 starters at least before I got to my first reliever/closer. Who would be Rivera.
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Stuff trumps all.
The flip is the commoodity.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-24-2019 at 04:36 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-24-2019, 03:20 PM
doug.goodman doug.goodman is offline
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
Let me ask you something: do you win the game in the 9th inning or not?
Not if you allow 112 runs in the third inning...
Last edited by doug.goodman; 01-24-2019 at 03:24 PM.
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