Poll: do Baines and/or Smith belong in the Hall?

[insidethewrapper]

Over 200 in the HOF, Lee Smith 3rd All-Time in Saves. Baines 34th in RBI's, 46th in hits, 43rd in Total Bases and 60th in Extra Base Hits. So both are not that bad. Can't all be as good as Ruth, Cobb, etc.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Just realized nobody mentioned Dewey yet as a MUCH more deserving player than Baines

[mantlefan]

I always like to see some form of dominance in a Hall member. I voted yes for Smith because when he retired he was #1 in career saves.

Baines just chugged along for 22 years. Six All-Star games. Never once in the top 5 in the MVP vote. I gave him a "no".

[bigred1]

Same here, as above.

[kmac32]

Keep in mind that you need to compare them with their peers. Clear yes for Big Lee! Bains was a good player but not HOF calibur.

[jayandbutton]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Keep in mind that you need to compare them with their peers. Clear yes for Big Lee! Bains was a good player but not HOF calibur.

yes to smith, no to baines.

smith was the dominant closer of his league for a number of years, the best man any manager could want coming out of the pen. he was the all time leader in saves when he retired.

baines only ranked in the top three of ANY of the more than one dozen offensive categories ONE TIME over 22 seasons. that means he never came within the top three of anything such as hits, doubles, triples, homers, batting average, RBI, walks, plate appearances, runs scored, etc., even though he had hundreds of chances. and he did almost nothing on defense, never came close to leading anything on that side of the diamond and actually only played the field a handful of years.

so what made him a HOFer? if not his bat, or his legs, or his glove, or his arm....what is left to evaluate? answer: political connections?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by jayandbutton

yes to smith, no to baines.

smith was the dominant closer of his league for a number of years, the best man any manager could want coming out of the pen. he was the all time leader in saves when he retired.

When exactly was Smith "the" dominant closer in his league for a number of years? In the NL through 1984 (at least), Sutter was better. That leaves 85-87 in the NL. Smith wasn't "the" guy those three years either. Then he goes over to the AL where Eck was better. Then back to the NL where he's pretty clearly the best guy in 1991 & 92 but "dominant" is up for debate unless you only look at saves. After that, he bounces around but is clearly not dominant.

So maybe two years?

[Marc Simmons]

Originally Posted by mantlefan

I always like to see some form of dominance in a Hall member. I voted yes for Smith because when he retired he was #1 in career saves.

Baines just chugged along for 22 years. Six All-Star games. Never once in the top 5 in the MVP vote. I gave him a "no".

if you look at Baines stats, he should’ve retired after his first 10 seasons.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Marc Simmons

if you look at Baines stats, he should’ve retired after his first 10 seasons.

After his 10th season, Baines had seasons with an OPS+ 143, 137, 142, 132 and 136 and was above average every year but his last two in which he was a part time player. He was an All Star twice and even had a few top 10s. Baines was a very good player for most of his career. The problem was that he was never a truly great player, not that he hung on too long.

[Touch'EmAll]

I always liked Bill Madlock, would take him on my team any day over Harold Baines. Now that Baines is in, I would put Madlock in the "snubbed" category. Heck, he actually won 4 batting titles - he did something. Don't think Baines even won one, or was even that close .

[packs]

Can someone tell me how much distance exists between the supposedly "dominant" Lee Smith and the decidedly not "dominant" John Franco?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Over 200 in the HOF, Lee Smith 3rd All-Time in Saves. Baines 34th in RBI's, 46th in hits, 43rd in Total Bases and 60th in Extra Base Hits. So both are not that bad. Can't all be as good as Ruth, Cobb, etc.

Agree 100%. If Smith doesn't belong, then you need to kick out a bunch of relievers. If Baines doesn't belong, then there are a lot of other Veterans Committee picks that need to go too. These 2 guys clearly fit in the Hof's pattern of electing members.

Some may want the HOF to be exclusive. However, the HOF wants guys elected, that is how they stay profitable. Between 2001 and 2018, only 3 players were elected by the VC, a number of managers and executives made it. With 2 last year and 2 this year, don't be surprised to see more VC HOF picks.