In light of T206 fiasco...

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by uniship

To take the chance to forge a signature like Ruth on a 3k to 10k card takes some huge confidence. I tend to think those sorts of cards are far less frequently forged than the cards that are less than $50.

Ruth’s also draw a lot of attention — TPAs and collectors alike become critics. When $20 commons can sell for $6,000+ like in the T206 world, that’s where it really pays to forge — very low risk, extremely high reward. Us signed T206 collectors were more or less inviting the criminals in.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Ruth’s also draw a lot of attention — TPAs and collectors alike become critics. When $20 commons can sell for $6,000+ like in the T206 world, that’s where it really pays to forge — very low risk, extremely high reward. Us signed T206 collectors were more or less inviting the criminals in.

Good analysis, but the incentive on a Goudey Ruth is massive, and 33 Goudey collectors have proven to be just as inviting.

[theshleps]

The number of signed Gehrig exhibits from the 1920's hitting the market have been alarming to me or at least highly suspicious. We know some folks were getting cards signed back in the 1930s like the Goudeys with the red lines under them. Many of us back in the 1960s were sending cards TTM to be signed. When I did that I was sending 1960-1 fleer cards. Never thought of looking for GOUDEYS or T206s and as a teenager in NYC without a card store nearby (just buying packs in a nearby candy store), I would have had no idea how to even get a T206. I did send some older topps to players but nothing earlier. And when the old time dealers like Max Schrager sold HOF autographs I never saw any on vintage cards as I went to his house a number of times
It would be interesting to know how many say signed 1933 Goudey Gehrigs actually exist both real and forged. At auction when say a T206 of a tougher guy like say Baker comes up we are aware of the collectors that might bid as we are most times bidding against others on the board. Wonder what the real demand is. If Baker signed 25 T206 in 1960 with great provenance and pictures to prove it and they were all listed on ebay for $20,000 each buy it now- would they all sell? Just curious

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by theshleps

It would be interesting to know how many say signed 1933 Goudey Gehrigs actually exist both real and forged.

Such information is readily available. Just start collecting scans from old auctions or from catalogs.

We've brought this up before regarding Goudeys and... crickets. No one wants to piss off the big AH's that keep recycling these things. And most collectors are also afraid of bad-mouthing the TPA's that won't give them a re-look.

Too much money being threatened, and too many collection gaps needing filled. Black ball me, but you guys are the root of the problem.

[Lordstan]

I am one of those in the goudey camp, but am limited to just 1934s, which have not seen a particularly big jump in the number of cards out there like the 33's. It has taken me 38 yrs to collect 80 different cards.

I do have concerns as we all should. If anyone finds any of mine unsigned versions somewhere, I would appreciate them giving me a heads up. I freely admit to not being perfect and am always willing to hear from knowledgeable people.

[Runscott]

Mark, I don't think it's that difficult - you can be quite imperfect and still have an unadulterated collection. I'm sure you are fine.

[jad22]

Originally Posted by theshleps

The number of signed Gehrig exhibits from the 1920's hitting the market have been alarming to me or at least highly suspicious. We know some folks were getting cards signed back in the 1930s like the Goudeys with the red lines under them. Many of us back in the 1960s were sending cards TTM to be signed. When I did that I was sending 1960-1 fleer cards. Never thought of looking for GOUDEYS or T206s and as a teenager in NYC without a card store nearby (just buying packs in a nearby candy store), I would have had no idea how to even get a T206. I did send some older topps to players but nothing earlier. And when the old time dealers like Max Schrager sold HOF autographs I never saw any on vintage cards as I went to his house a number of times
It would be interesting to know how many say signed 1933 Goudey Gehrigs actually exist both real and forged. At auction when say a T206 of a tougher guy like say Baker comes up we are aware of the collectors that might bid as we are most times bidding against others on the board. Wonder what the real demand is. If Baker signed 25 T206 in 1960 with great provenance and pictures to prove it and they were all listed on ebay for $20,000 each buy it now- would they all sell? Just curious

Are any of the signed Baker t206 cards pre-stroke? Some of the 61 Fleer are.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by jad22

Are any of the signed Baker t206 cards pre-stroke? Some of the 61 Fleer are.

This is mine. Got it in person from an old time collector of baseball and music autographs in North Carolina in 2016. Flew down from New York after being connected through Jeff Morey’s autograph magazine. I helped him consign his entire collection through Brian Dwyer over the Spring and Fall 2017 catalogs. For helping him, he sold me a handful of signed prewar cards, including this Baker, and my Lajoie and M116 Wagner. His most valuable stuff was Beatles related. He had some really crazy pieces. Yes, they passed JSA and SGC, but under the recent circumstances, I’ll just show the raw scan.

[RedsFan1941]

how does buying it in person relate to the authenticity of a signature? reading your posts over the past few days it seems you place more importance on when a signed t206 was purchased rather than the signature itself. now added to the mix is if a card was bought in person? runscott is right about the root of the problem.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

how does buying it in person relate to the authenticity of a signature? reading your posts over the past few days it seems you place more importance on when a signed t206 was purchased rather than the signature itself. now added to the mix is if a card was bought in person? runscott is right about the root of the problem.

I was hoping the old time collector was Frank Baker.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

how does buying it in person relate to the authenticity of a signature? reading your posts over the past few days it seems you place more importance on when a signed t206 was purchased rather than the signature itself. now added to the mix is if a card was bought in person? runscott is right about the root of the problem.

I mean that I examined the signature in person. Didn’t buy it on-line based on a scan or an LOA. It was then authenticated by JSA and SGC.

The timing is only important insofar as you consider that the current scourge of forgeries being discussed this week appear to have begun in October 2015. Since this card was purchased in 2016, I think it is important to note a little bit about the history of the card.

[theshleps]

Originally Posted by jad22

Are any of the signed Baker t206 cards pre-stroke? Some of the 61 Fleer are.

I personally own a few Bakers. my 40 playball and 61 fleer of just Baker are prestroke. My 61 Fleer with Sisler and my 60 Fleer are post stroke