Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

T206Collector · #1 11-29-2018, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atx840

I think this is your Murray. Do you have a back scan. Mar 5, 2015

That�s definitely it. Well done. I have to pull these little pieces of criminal evidence out of my safe deposit box (a lot of good that extra layer of protection did them) to see the back, but will scan and post it here.

Thanks again for all the hard work everybody.

T206Collector · #2 11-29-2018, 05:41 AM

Found a post of mine from October 2015, which is very hard for me to read. But you can see my surprise about the onslaught of new signed T206 cards to hit the hobby. I mention and cite a Carrigan from Clean Sweep that ought to be looked at as well. So sad. I was so excited at the time.

Edited to note: the Speaker has been known to the hobby for over a decade and should not be tarred by the fact that it came up for sale at this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Now that the dust has settled, I wanted to discuss the absolute flurry of signed T206 cards that have been popping up in different recent auctions -- a whopping three of which poses had never been publicly identified before (Baker, Tannehill, and Murray). I believe this to be the first time a heretofore unknown signed T206 pose has been publicized since I started tracking these wonderful little marvels back in April 2007. To have three all in the same month or so really amazed me, and hopefully is a portent of good things to come in this regard.

The cream of the crop, Tris Speaker, went for $32,310 --

-- the highest price ever recorded for an autographed T206 card at auction by thousands, exceeding the $27,600 a signed red background Cobb sold for in 2010. This beauty went in the last Goodwin Auction:

https://goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.a...entoryid=30988

An absolute steal by comparison, this beautiful Frank "Home Run" Baker went for a relatively inexpensive $9,000 to the same buyer in Robert Edward Auctions last weekend:

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=38416

REA also had this sweet Jess Tannehill, which went for $6,600:

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=38417

Tannehill, who died in 1956 -- the earliest of each of these five -- surpassed the highest prior sale of another signed T206 common by over $1,000, a sale which coincidentally happened three weeks ago when Hunt Auctions listed this gorgeous Red Murray:

http://huntauctions.com/phone/imagev...135&lot_num=48

But perhaps the most surprising sale of all was this signed T206 of Bill Carrigan for $2,742 in Clean Sweep Auctions. Surprising because two additional Carrigans were sold from The Great Pittsburgh Find of Signed T206 Cards that hit eBay in 2007, so this was at least the third one identified in that time, and I believe I have seen or owned one or two others.

http://www.cleansweepauctions.com/it...0519504#images

Carrigan died in 1969, which gave him three years after the publication of The Glory of Their Times to sign TTM autographs. Although Carrigan was not featured in Larry Ritter's book, the book generated substantial interest in the Deadball Era, and triggered the pursuit of many autograph collectors who were similarly inspired to track down Rube Marquard, Fred Snodgrass, and others.

This Fall has indeed been a very exciting time to be collecting autographed tobacco cards. It has also caused my wallet to hemorrhage money, as I added the Tannehill and Murray to my collection, which now includes 40 unique signed poses of T206 cards.

Pat R · #3 11-29-2018, 06:35 AM

Do you have a larger scan of the Carrigan Paul.

I think we will find out who the culprit is soon. I think I know but
I would have to be 100% sure before I would accuse someone of something
like this.

T206Collector · #4 11-29-2018, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

Do you have a larger scan of the Carrigan Paul.

http://www.cleansweepauctions.com/it...0519504#images

trobba · #5 11-29-2018, 07:20 AM

Just getting caught up with all this and its not my area of collecting but it is extremely maddening and troubling on two fronts...

1) The Forger(s) ~ clearly someone has made a lot of money on creating these.I'm actually quite surprised in our relatively small world they have yet to be unmasked.

2) The Authenticators ~ if they can't tell an autograph was done within the last year or two for someone who passed away decades ago that is quite troubling. I thought in addition to studying the flow, style etc of the signature, they were able to tell some age of the writing (ie. like a trimmed card where there is distinctive tells of different aged paper), guess I was wrong.
This will surely throw this side of the business back for years, to miss this many examples in such a relatively short period of time truly shows they really have no clue about what is real and what is fake. Can't think of too many other business where you can be completely wrong that many times and wouldn't affect your long term success (except maybe meteorology).

Very sad times...

JoeRand · #6 11-29-2018, 07:55 AM

Very troubling issue. I love baseball and history... signed vintage cards are the perfect intersection of the two. I'm impressed by how members of this group have unraveled it and I hope whoever is behind it is brought to justice for the sake of the hobby.

Here is my collection. I believe both Doyles and the Snodgrass are from the 2007 Great Pittsburgh find, and perhaps the McBride too... in case anyone can help shed light on their authenticity.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #7 11-29-2018, 07:57 AM

anyone remember the name of the American Greed guy who has posted here? Maybe they'd like to get in on the ground floor of a story instead of reporting on it years later. Would also ratchet up interest, possibly in law enforcement circles.

JoeRand · #8 11-29-2018, 07:58 AM

Apologies for the image orientation... I'm new to posting images on this group so not sure how they ended up sideways, they didn't look that way when being uploaded.

T206Collector · #9 11-29-2018, 08:06 AM

Joe - those are great signed T206 cards. All but the Marquard is from the 2007 Pittsburgh Find, and I remain confident are authentic.

The Marquard is actually from an eBay auction of four signed Marquards in 2004. I was the one that had the card authenticated by JSA/SGC, and I still have two others from that lot of four. They were my first four signed T206 cards ever to grace my collection. I can't see the serial numbers on yours clearly, but based on mine I'd guess 9005220-001 or 003.

Here are mine -- you won't find them on Worthpoint or Cardtarget, unless they go back to 2004, and in such instance you'll find only the signed versions!

Marquard At Sides SGC 20 Auto

HOF Auto Rookies · #10 12-06-2018, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRand

Very troubling issue. I love baseball and history... signed vintage cards are the perfect intersection of the two. I'm impressed by how members of this group have unraveled it and I hope whoever is behind it is brought to justice for the sake of the hobby.

Here is my collection. I believe both Doyles and the Snodgrass are from the 2007 Great Pittsburgh find, and perhaps the McBride too... in case anyone can help shed light on their authenticity.

Joe, I believe I sold you the McBride about 4-5 years ago and I had owned it for around a year and purchased it from a fellow board member who had had it for years. I am highly confident the signature is good.

T206Collector · #11 11-29-2018, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

I think we will find out who the culprit is soon. I think I know but I would have to be 100% sure before I would accuse someone of something like this.

I hope you�re right. I am keeping a list of things I am going to say in court.

Bpm0014 · #12 11-29-2018, 07:41 AM

To miss this many examples in such a relatively short period of time truly shows they really have no clue about what is real and what is fake.

This about sums up everything.

uniship · #13 11-29-2018, 07:49 AM

The auction houses involved know exactly who got paid for these forgeries. By now they know with very high confidence who is guilty here.

They need to be outed. These swindlers need to be made public.

RichardSimon · #14 11-29-2018, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uniship

The auction houses involved know exactly who got paid for these forgeries. By now they know with very high confidence who is guilty here.

They need to be outed. These swindlers need to be made public.

+1

Republicaninmass · #15 11-29-2018, 10:10 AM

Probably can enlarge this

And its mine

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