Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[1treasuretrove]

I’ll say this...

I would imagine most collectors that have a signed card authenticated for resale would not choose JSA or SGC. This is nothing against either company but is specifically related to cards. If someone were selling a signed 8x10 photo, resale value would typically remain the same.

For signed cards, I would think the most typical choice for resale would be PSA/DNA or BAS. Modern cards (e.g. Mike Trout signed rookie) should sell for the same amount with either PSA or BAS and some collectors might prefer the Beckett holder. For vintage cards, it is without question (for me) PSA/DNA for resale.

If I see someone post a signed vintage card in an SGC holder on a message board when showing off their collection...I figure it must just be brand loyalty or preference to the holder type. If I see someone selling a signed vintage card with anything other than PSA, I figure it must have previously failed PSA. While failing PSA is of course no true verification that an autograph isn’t authentic, the holder itself holds more weight.

This might not be true for everyone but this is how I see it when determining resale. I use all 4 companies for resale but it is based on item type and tier.

EDITED TO ADD:
This thread shows some amazing work of the members here. While the ffindings are sad and I feel for the buyers, there is always some level of fraud in everything and it must be exposed. Tremendous work and great collaborative discussion on a necessary topic for our hobby.

[T206Collector]

For anybody who knows Brian this will come as no surprise, but last night -- unsolicited -- Brian sent me a refund e-check for the Sullivan, with a pre-paid FedEx label to return the card to him. Suffice it to say, I have now spoken to Brian, who is well aware of these threads, and is working on the issue privately to help determine the source of these forgeries. I understand he has reached out to the buyer of the Parent as well.

A shining moment in an otherwise black day for my hobby.

Thank you again Brian.

[T_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

For anybody who knows Brian this will come as no surprise, but last night -- unsolicited -- Brian sent me a refund e-check for the Sullivan, with a pre-paid FedEx label to return the card to him. Suffice it to say, I have now spoken to Brian, who is well aware of these threads, and is working on the issue privately to help determine the source of these forgeries. I understand he has reached out to the buyer of the Parent as well.

A shining moment in an otherwise black day for my hobby.

Thank you again Brian.

We all feel you pain as passionate collectors... hang in there!

And kudos to Brian for continuing to be a standup guy in the hobby!

[mrvster]

my heart goes out to you! and to you to Mike!

Brian is the man!

I am fuming today seeing these posts....this sucks!

[mrvster]

check mine???

[obcmac]

Wow, do I feel terrible for T206 Collector and everyone else who has been duped. I cannot figure out autographs at all. Fakes, fakes and fakes. Why do people believe in all these miraculously signed items? I don't believe Spence can do it and I don't think SGC can do it. You can pick some bad fakes out, but oh it looks similar enough to a known example, so it's real? That's not proof of anything.

I have very high hopes in Brian that he will help unmask the forger...and hopefully Verkmann will help as well. I would love to see SGC offer up the name of those who consigned these items...and help be part of the solution. Please!

Mac Wubben

[The Nasty Nati]

I was always blown away that JSA and SGC slabbed these cards that were clearly never signed by Rube Marquard. The signatures are much different, and probably signed by his wife. How did they not catch that or at least indicate on the slab that it was signed by his wife.

[bxb]

Unless you are personally witnessing the signing of the card, there is no way that you, or any expert can ever be 100% sure it is not a fake. Trained artists can fake any signature, and if you don't believe that you are being naive.

Expert opinions are just that, opinions.

[Fred]

Marquard passed away in 1980. I used to write to HOFers back in the 70s and I have some of his signatures from the mid-late 70s. Many of the signatures later in his life showed signs of someone that did not have a very steady hand.

He'd have been in his mid to late 80's when he signed the 3x5 cards and HOF Plaque cards. I'm pretty sure the signatures I have were signed by him because why would someone sign it really jittery...

My guess is that any signatures that are fairly clean are from pre-mid 70s.

I'd have to figure that if he signed a few this year they'd be really shakey signatures....not like the pretty signatures that someone else wrote for him this year....

This is getting pretty deep.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by mrvster

check mine???

This seems very unlikely to be faked; The signature on front is faded/streaky and oddly located. The writing on back is too much for someone who's faking to add, plus a second signature. Plus the card itself seems a little too damaged: pinhole plus creases just looks natural.
It's like buying a photograph signed with an inscription to someone: less likely to be faked because the limit on people interested in purchasing it.

[Luke]

Man this is wild. Great job uncovering all this. With how much this is going to cost, I wonder if these TPGs will just stop grading signed T206s. Obviously there are more valuable autographed items, but a signed Billy Sullivan T206 is pretty obscure. Has to be tough to offer an opinion on a card like that and feel great about it.

[SetBuilder]

If anyone has a card they want to check against auction records at Worthpoint or anywhere else, or wants the community to help check, we need at a minimum, the auction date (when you purchased it but preferably when it was first sold) and the back type. This is to narrow down the immense amount of cards in the search results. It gets the results down from around 1,000 to a more manageable 2-300.