Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List)

[T206Collector]

For anybody who knows Brian this will come as no surprise, but last night -- unsolicited -- Brian sent me a refund e-check for the Sullivan, with a pre-paid FedEx label to return the card to him. Suffice it to say, I have now spoken to Brian, who is well aware of these threads, and is working on the issue privately to help determine the source of these forgeries. I understand he has reached out to the buyer of the Parent as well.

A shining moment in an otherwise black day for my hobby.

Thank you again Brian.

[T_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

For anybody who knows Brian this will come as no surprise, but last night -- unsolicited -- Brian sent me a refund e-check for the Sullivan, with a pre-paid FedEx label to return the card to him. Suffice it to say, I have now spoken to Brian, who is well aware of these threads, and is working on the issue privately to help determine the source of these forgeries. I understand he has reached out to the buyer of the Parent as well.

A shining moment in an otherwise black day for my hobby.

Thank you again Brian.

We all feel you pain as passionate collectors... hang in there!

And kudos to Brian for continuing to be a standup guy in the hobby!

[mrvster]

my heart goes out to you! and to you to Mike!

Brian is the man!

I am fuming today seeing these posts....this sucks!

[mrvster]

check mine???

[obcmac]

Wow, do I feel terrible for T206 Collector and everyone else who has been duped. I cannot figure out autographs at all. Fakes, fakes and fakes. Why do people believe in all these miraculously signed items? I don't believe Spence can do it and I don't think SGC can do it. You can pick some bad fakes out, but oh it looks similar enough to a known example, so it's real? That's not proof of anything.

I have very high hopes in Brian that he will help unmask the forger...and hopefully Verkmann will help as well. I would love to see SGC offer up the name of those who consigned these items...and help be part of the solution. Please!

Mac Wubben

[The Nasty Nati]

I was always blown away that JSA and SGC slabbed these cards that were clearly never signed by Rube Marquard. The signatures are much different, and probably signed by his wife. How did they not catch that or at least indicate on the slab that it was signed by his wife.

[bxb]

Unless you are personally witnessing the signing of the card, there is no way that you, or any expert can ever be 100% sure it is not a fake. Trained artists can fake any signature, and if you don't believe that you are being naive.

Expert opinions are just that, opinions.

[The Nasty Nati]

Also, I'm seeing a trend. All of the ones that have been discovered (minus the raw Marquard one) all have the newer SGC red label with the watermark.

Now that doesn't mean that the signed cards that have the older SGC slabs are truly authentic but this could be a better indicator.

In my opinion it's way too easy to forge a ballpoint pen and sharpie signature, but the old faded fountain pen signatures may be a little harder to forge nowadays...although not impossible.

And just because we can't find the card on Worthpoint doesn't mean the auto cards are in the clear. Worthpoint obviously doesn't account for cards acquired at shows and cards at auction houses. Worthpoint only covers ebay.

[Fred]

Marquard passed away in 1980. I used to write to HOFers back in the 70s and I have some of his signatures from the mid-late 70s. Many of the signatures later in his life showed signs of someone that did not have a very steady hand.

He'd have been in his mid to late 80's when he signed the 3x5 cards and HOF Plaque cards. I'm pretty sure the signatures I have were signed by him because why would someone sign it really jittery...

My guess is that any signatures that are fairly clean are from pre-mid 70s.

I'd have to figure that if he signed a few this year they'd be really shakey signatures....not like the pretty signatures that someone else wrote for him this year....

This is getting pretty deep.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by mrvster

check mine???

This seems very unlikely to be faked; The signature on front is faded/streaky and oddly located. The writing on back is too much for someone who's faking to add, plus a second signature. Plus the card itself seems a little too damaged: pinhole plus creases just looks natural.
It's like buying a photograph signed with an inscription to someone: less likely to be faked because the limit on people interested in purchasing it.

[Luke]

Man this is wild. Great job uncovering all this. With how much this is going to cost, I wonder if these TPGs will just stop grading signed T206s. Obviously there are more valuable autographed items, but a signed Billy Sullivan T206 is pretty obscure. Has to be tough to offer an opinion on a card like that and feel great about it.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Luke

Man this is wild. Great job uncovering all this. With how much this is going to cost, I wonder if these TPGs will just stop grading signed T206s.

If people will consistently pay you to do something you don't have the expertise to do, then most people will keep on taking the money. 'Transparent ineptitude' is fine.

[SetBuilder]

If anyone has a card they want to check against auction records at Worthpoint or anywhere else, or wants the community to help check, we need at a minimum, the auction date (when you purchased it but preferably when it was first sold) and the back type. This is to narrow down the immense amount of cards in the search results. It gets the results down from around 1,000 to a more manageable 2-300.

[Shoeless Moe]

....

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

If anyone has a card they want to check against auction records at Worthpoint or anywhere else, or wants the community to help check, we need at a minimum, the auction date (when you purchased it but preferably when it was first sold) and the back type. This is to narrow down the immense amount of cards in the search results. It gets the results down from around 1,000 to a more manageable 2-300.

Agreed, although when searching Worthpoint don't include the back in the search as some people don't list the backs in their original ebay posts.

[D. Bergin]

Not to point out the obvious, but it's amazing the only reason this guy got caught is because he was using lower grade encapsulated cards that could easily be traced.

Why somebody skilled enough with forging who was able to get away with this for several years wasn't digging up easily obtained lower grade raw versions of these same players I'll never know.

It's almost arrogant.

Could only imagine how many of these are out there that will never get matched up with the original card.

Also, this thread has got me thinking it's about time I stopped being cheap and finally signed up with Worthpoint.

[D. Bergin]

Sorry guys, couldn't help myself. Some mildly NSFW language and probably not the classiest thing I've ever done.

Sorry, couldn't figure out how to upload this to Youtube and keep the captions.


http://captiongenerator.com/1198202/...raphed-Mystery