Honus Wagner Patterson NJ BB team photo 1896???

[rhettyeakley]

Obviously in this case Fred made a mistake and that is fine, nobody is upset with him about it, nor should they be. Mistakes happen all the time, I know because I’m usually the one making them!

As far as outing auctions go... one of the most enjoyable aspects of collecting is finding a deal or getting a great item for a good deal. Often times that deal was found because of knowledge you possess that has taken time and research to gain, sometimes it is just luck. If you spend hours a day scouring eBay rabbit-holes just to have someone else post your findings to a community board where someone with deeper pockets swoops in and outbids you... that is super frustrating.

Also, I have never understood the thought process that somehow the Consignor is somehow “owed” or “deserves” top dollar for their item, especially if they have no idea what it is or why it is worth money. There is nothing sacred about their claim any more than the collector that is looking to purchase an item and SURPRISE would love to find something for a good deal.

If anybody was at an antique show (not a baseball card show) and they were going through a paper dealers stuff and found a nice card or item (say for example something like a small stack of Old Judge cards with a Deacon White and Bid McPhee in there) and the seller was asking $20/each for the cards... every person that knows would buy that stack of cards right then and there. The reality is that that dealer probably paid far less then what they were selling them for, there is no sacred duty to help that collector/dealer to maximize returns.

That being said, I reserve the right to break my rules at times. I have been the one to point out something to a seller that they may not have known as a favor (usually I know them or consider them a friend.) I have also done the opposite as well, I was once at a paper show and found a valuable autograped postcard that I later sold for $1500-2000 or so in a stack of postcards with a $10 price. I was toying with idea in my head that maybe I should say something BUT the dealer was so rude to everyone during the 20 Minutes I was at his table I just paid for the item and walked away with a nice find.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Obviously in this case Fred made a mistake and that is fine, nobody is upset with him about it, nor should they be. Mistakes happen all the time, I know because I’m usually the one making them!

As far as outing auctions go... one of the most enjoyable aspects of collecting is finding a deal or getting a great item for a good deal. Often times that deal was found because of knowledge you possess that has taken time and research to gain, sometimes it is just luck. If you spend hours a day scouring eBay rabbit-holes just to have someone else post your findings to a community board where someone with deeper pockets swoops in and outbids you... that is super frustrating.

Also, I have never understood the thought process that somehow the Consignor is somehow “owed” or “deserves” top dollar for their item, especially if they have no idea what it is or why it is worth money. There is nothing sacred about their claim any more than the collector that is looking to purchase an item and SURPRISE would love to find something for a good deal.

If anybody was at an antique show (not a baseball card show) and they were going through a paper dealers stuff and found a nice card or item (say for example something like a small stack of Old Judge cards with a Deacon White and Bid McPhee in there) and the seller was asking $20/each for the cards... every person that knows would buy that stack of cards right then and there. The reality is that that dealer probably paid far less then what they were selling them for, there is no sacred duty to help that collector/dealer to maximize returns.

That being said, I reserve the right to break my rules at times. I have been the one to point out something to a seller that they may not have known as a favor (usually I know them or consider them a friend.) I have also done the opposite as well, I was once at a paper show and found a valuable autograped postcard that I later sold for $1500-2000 or so in a stack of postcards with a $10 price. I was toying with idea in my head that maybe I should say something BUT the dealer was so rude to everyone during the 20 Minutes I was at his table I just paid for the item and walked away with a nice find.

A few months ago, an elderly neighbor called me to look at some mail she received. Her husband died a few months ago and she received a letter in the mail from some sketchy real estate company offering to buy her house in cash immediately. For about half of what it was worth. I guess this is a business angle. Comb the obituaries and find widows who are floundering financially and try to get their home for about half of its fair market value.

I reviewed the letter to her and explained that these guys were trying to get her home for a fraction of what it was worth and she should throw the letter in the garbage.

Did I "out" their business model. Should I feel terrible about what I did?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

A few months ago, an elderly neighbor called me to look at some mail she received. Her husband died a few months ago and she received a letter in the mail from some sketchy real estate company offering to buy her house in cash immediately. For about half of what it was worth. I guess this is a business angle. Comb the obituaries and find widows who are floundering financially and try to get their home for about half of its fair market value.

I reviewed the letter to her and explained that these guys were trying to get her home for a fraction of what it was worth and she should throw the letter in the garbage.

Did I "out" their business model. Should I feel terrible about what I did?

You really didn't understand what I was writing did you!?! You just want to argue so I'm not going to go down that rabbit-hole with you.

Obviously, being a terrible person and taking advantage of an elderly person would be a bad thing.

This isn't a hard concept people!

I get where Jay is coming from as well as there have been items that I would have loved to have a chance at but didn't see the item until after the fact. I didn't enjoy that but I probably should have looked harder I suppose.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

A few months ago, an elderly neighbor called me to look at some mail she received. Her husband died a few months ago and she received a letter in the mail from some sketchy real estate company offering to buy her house in cash immediately. For about half of what it was worth. I guess this is a business angle. Comb the obituaries and find widows who are floundering financially and try to get their home for about half of its fair market value.

I reviewed the letter to her and explained that these guys were trying to get her home for a fraction of what it was worth and she should throw the letter in the garbage.

Did I "out" their business model. Should I feel terrible about what I did?

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing your story that just conveniently happened a few months ago... perfect timing to make a nonsensical comparison to the thread right? And you're comparing someone who offers someone an unsolicited low ball offer to someone purchasing an item at what the seller wanted or expected. These two things are completely different. You can't see that?

So if you're some marauding do-gooder so concerned with ignorant sellers getting the same amount as people that actually research and do the work...
then why aren't you spending day and night patrolling the web, looking to help those completely unfortunate individuals to make sure they get every penny you wrongfully think they deserve?

Hurry Steven!! Someone somewhere is getting an item a nickel cheaper than market value... Ohh the unjust horror!

...I should add this is mostly in jest, but c'mon, let's not be delusional.
What ever happened to personal responsibility in society????

[rainier2004]

That was a horrible job to market the piece by the AH, that is the AHs responsibility and if they do not know they should reach out. That is the difference in AHs, that is exactly what they are suppose to do. If I consigned that item not knowing what I had and strolled across this thread right now Id be pissed. Anyone can thrown a card in an auction, not everyone knows how to market what they have to the right audience. The AH did a major disservice to the consignor.

S Suckow

[Snapolit1]

Actually it happened to my mother, but I didn't care to interject a lot of personal stuff into the discussion.

And Rhys, while I responded to your post, I wasn't addressing you specifically, but the general concept that somehow interfering with a lopsided transaction is a terrible thing to do.

And I totally agree that the AH deserves a lot of blame here.

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing your story that just conveniently happened a few months ago... perfect timing to make a nonsensical comparison to the thread right? And you're comparing someone who offers someone an unsolicited low ball offer to someone purchasing an item at what the seller wanted or expected. These two things are completely different. You can't see that?

So if you're some marauding do-gooder so concerned with ignorant sellers getting the same amount as people that actually research and do the work...
then why aren't you spending day and night patrolling the web, looking to help those completely unfortunate individuals to make sure they get every penny you wrongfully think they deserve?

Hurry Steven!! Someone somewhere is getting an item a nickel cheaper than market value... Ohh the unjust horror!

...I should add this is mostly in jest, but c'mon, let's not be delusional.
What ever happened to personal responsibility in society????

[barrysloate]

Since the majority who posted here prefer the no outing "rule", and since some still do find hidden gems on places like ebay, then that's the way to go. I don't search ebay much anymore, so I'll defer to those who do.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Also, I have never understood the thought process that somehow the Consignor is somehow “owed” or “deserves” top dollar for their item, especially if they have no idea what it is or why it is worth money. There is nothing sacred about their claim any more than the collector that is looking to purchase an item and SURPRISE would love to find something for a good deal.

If anybody was at an antique show (not a baseball card show) and they were going through a paper dealers stuff and found a nice card or item (say for example something like a small stack of Old Judge cards with a Deacon White and Bid McPhee in there) and the seller was asking $20/each for the cards... every person that knows would buy that stack of cards right then and there. The reality is that that dealer probably paid far less then what they were selling them for, there is no sacred duty to help that collector/dealer to maximize returns.

I do not completely agree with this. I feel a consignor is owed or deserves top dollar for their material if they are relying on the auction house, as experts, to properly market and sell the item for them. Especially if the consignor is not an expert or has the connections or the means to sell the material themselves. To suggest otherwise implies if you had an auction house you would not feel obligated to do that for your consignors.

In your example, the paper dealer selling OJs for $20 each is a different story. They are in the business of selling second hand material. They may not be card experts but they are experts in the business of selling and should know enough to know who to ask or where to find the value of those OJs. If not that is on them.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I do not completely agree with this. I feel a consignor is owed or deserves top dollar for their material if they are relying on the auction house, as experts, to properly market and sell the item for them. Especially if the consignor is not an expert or has the connections or the means to sell the material themselves. To suggest otherwise implies if you had an auction house you would not feel obligated to do that for your consignors.

Absolute nonsense!

If I had an Auction House, I wouldn't do a horrible job marketing an item. Not all auction houses are created equally.

You are actually suggesting that to not help a consignor attain maximum value for an item at an auction house (who are paid to do a job) is the same as me ripping off a theoretical consignor?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Absolute nonsense!

You are actually suggesting that to not help a consignor attain maximum value for an item at an auction house (who are paid to do a job) is the same as me ripping off a theoretical consignor?

I am suggesting nothing. I stated that a consignor is owed and deserves top dollar if they contract with an AH to sell their goods which is contrary to what you wrote. You were the one suggesting that a consignor who does not know the value of what they have is not entitled to top dollar. If the consignor is not an expert and turns to an expert then they should not be dismissed.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You were the one suggesting that a consignor who does not know the value of what they have is not entitled to top dollar.

I don't really believe anyone is "entitled" to anything in this world.

You would be hard-pressed to find someone in this hobby that tries to treat other people with more respect and gives information and knowledge more freely to others than I do. There is no obligation to do so and there never has been a mandate dictating that it be done. I enjoy doing so because it is fun but to many their knowledge is theirs and they use it to the best of their ability to help themselves... that is their right to do so as they own their own knowledge and have worked hard to attain it.

I'm not getting the righteous indignation here.

[Leon]

What if the consignor turned to the wrong expert?

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I am suggesting nothing. I stated that a consignor is owed and deserves top dollar if they contract with an AH to sell their goods which is contrary to what you wrote. You were the one suggesting that a consignor who does not know the value of what they have is not entitled to top dollar. If the consignor is not an expert and turns to an expert then they should not be dismissed.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Leon

What if the consignor turned to the wrong expert?

Is this a "If a tree falls in a forest..." question?

To answer you, I don't think it changes the point I was making which is that a layperson should be "entitled" (sorry Rhett) to not be mislead or taken advantage of by a person or business who is/are considered experts. Nobody should be disadvantaged because they are not experts.

That said, I get your point, not all experts are going to do the best job or do a good job at all. If the expert was just not great at their job then that is the cost of doing business for the consignor and an unfortunate outcome for them.

The OP stated "Also, I have never understood the thought process that somehow the Consignor is somehow “owed” or “deserves” top dollar for their item, especially if they have no idea what it is or why it is worth money." I just do not agree with his statement. Using that same logic if the OP hired a contractor to fix something in his house that he knew nothing about I guess he would be ok if the $125 job cost him $4,875 before parts??

Now if you excuse me I have a date with my TV to watch the Dodgers/Giants game.

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Now if you excuse me I have a date with my TV to watch the Dodgers/Giants game.

Let's go Dodgers!

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Is this a "If a tree falls in a forest..." question?

To answer you, I don't think it changes the point I was making which is that a layperson should be "entitled" (sorry Rhett) to not be mislead or taken advantage of by a person or business who is/are considered experts. Nobody should be disadvantaged because they are not experts.

That said, I get your point, not all experts are going to do the best job or do a good job at all. If the expert was just not great at their job then that is the cost of doing business for the consignor and an unfortunate outcome for them.

The OP stated "Also, I have never understood the thought process that somehow the Consignor is somehow “owed” or “deserves” top dollar for their item, especially if they have no idea what it is or why it is worth money." I just do not agree with his statement. Using that same logic if the OP hired a contractor to fix something in his house that he knew nothing about I guess he would be ok if the $125 job cost him $4,875 before parts??

Now if you excuse me I have a date with my TV to watch the Dodgers/Giants game.

Wow, way to take my quote out of context! I said quite a bit more before and after making that statement, go back and read it again.

There is due diligence that needs to be done by anyone that has an object for sale, if they don't do it or simply hand it off to someone else (that may or may not do it) then that is on them, not the universe to make them "right."

This is a fight I am just not willing to have.