Honus Wagner Patterson NJ BB team photo 1896???

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Absolute nonsense!

You are actually suggesting that to not help a consignor attain maximum value for an item at an auction house (who are paid to do a job) is the same as me ripping off a theoretical consignor?

I am suggesting nothing. I stated that a consignor is owed and deserves top dollar if they contract with an AH to sell their goods which is contrary to what you wrote. You were the one suggesting that a consignor who does not know the value of what they have is not entitled to top dollar. If the consignor is not an expert and turns to an expert then they should not be dismissed.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You were the one suggesting that a consignor who does not know the value of what they have is not entitled to top dollar.

I don't really believe anyone is "entitled" to anything in this world.

You would be hard-pressed to find someone in this hobby that tries to treat other people with more respect and gives information and knowledge more freely to others than I do. There is no obligation to do so and there never has been a mandate dictating that it be done. I enjoy doing so because it is fun but to many their knowledge is theirs and they use it to the best of their ability to help themselves... that is their right to do so as they own their own knowledge and have worked hard to attain it.

I'm not getting the righteous indignation here.

[Leon]

What if the consignor turned to the wrong expert?

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I am suggesting nothing. I stated that a consignor is owed and deserves top dollar if they contract with an AH to sell their goods which is contrary to what you wrote. You were the one suggesting that a consignor who does not know the value of what they have is not entitled to top dollar. If the consignor is not an expert and turns to an expert then they should not be dismissed.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Leon

What if the consignor turned to the wrong expert?

Is this a "If a tree falls in a forest..." question?

To answer you, I don't think it changes the point I was making which is that a layperson should be "entitled" (sorry Rhett) to not be mislead or taken advantage of by a person or business who is/are considered experts. Nobody should be disadvantaged because they are not experts.

That said, I get your point, not all experts are going to do the best job or do a good job at all. If the expert was just not great at their job then that is the cost of doing business for the consignor and an unfortunate outcome for them.

The OP stated "Also, I have never understood the thought process that somehow the Consignor is somehow “owed” or “deserves” top dollar for their item, especially if they have no idea what it is or why it is worth money." I just do not agree with his statement. Using that same logic if the OP hired a contractor to fix something in his house that he knew nothing about I guess he would be ok if the $125 job cost him $4,875 before parts??

Now if you excuse me I have a date with my TV to watch the Dodgers/Giants game.

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Now if you excuse me I have a date with my TV to watch the Dodgers/Giants game.

Let's go Dodgers!

[CobbSpikedMe]

No seller is "entitled" to get the best price for their item. In this case, with the Wagner, the seller may deserve a great price as it is a great piece, but he isn't entitled to it just because he put it up for sale in an auction. He is entitled to have the AH do it's due diligence and research what they are selling and market it properly to get the best price they can for their client.

As far as outing an auction goes, I am in the "it's not proper etiquette" boat. But I respect anyone's opinion even if it doesn't agree with my own.



.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Is this a "If a tree falls in a forest..." question?

To answer you, I don't think it changes the point I was making which is that a layperson should be "entitled" (sorry Rhett) to not be mislead or taken advantage of by a person or business who is/are considered experts. Nobody should be disadvantaged because they are not experts.

That said, I get your point, not all experts are going to do the best job or do a good job at all. If the expert was just not great at their job then that is the cost of doing business for the consignor and an unfortunate outcome for them.

The OP stated "Also, I have never understood the thought process that somehow the Consignor is somehow “owed” or “deserves” top dollar for their item, especially if they have no idea what it is or why it is worth money." I just do not agree with his statement. Using that same logic if the OP hired a contractor to fix something in his house that he knew nothing about I guess he would be ok if the $125 job cost him $4,875 before parts??

Now if you excuse me I have a date with my TV to watch the Dodgers/Giants game.

Wow, way to take my quote out of context! I said quite a bit more before and after making that statement, go back and read it again.

There is due diligence that needs to be done by anyone that has an object for sale, if they don't do it or simply hand it off to someone else (that may or may not do it) then that is on them, not the universe to make them "right."

This is a fight I am just not willing to have.

[prewarsports]

Im not mad at anyone and its all good, I just dont have a ton of time to come on this forum much anymore to read responses etc. In the abstract, people speak in moral high tones and that is all fine and dandy but when something they want comes up for sale and they have put in the legwork only to see it outed at the end would leave a bad taste in absolutely everyone's mouth.

I was not bidding, I just had a good friend who was and whether he would have won this or not, the thread just made my heart sink for him because I knew that once it was outed he had no chance anymore.

We move on

[drcy]

I think the various viewpoints and perspectives on this topic shows that, despite what some claim when they invoke it, there is no hobby rule. Or, at least, it's a rule that not everyone agrees with. As far as I very roughly calculate in this thread, half agree with it and half don't.

Of worthy note as far as some unwritten hobby rules go, I remember back when some old timers thought it unethical for someone to place their first winning bid in the last seconds of the auction. They considered that cheating or stealing what they considered rightful person who had his bid placed there a long time. Just saying.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Wow, way to take my quote out of context! I said quite a bit more before and after making that statement, go back and read it again.

There is due diligence that needs to be done by anyone that has an object for sale, if they don't do it or simply hand it off to someone else (that may or may not do it) then that is on them, not the universe to make them "right."

This is a fight I am just not willing to have.

Fight? For real? We, or at least I am, politely discussing/debating.

I absolutely agree that anyone selling should make efforts to know something about the material they have for sale but sometimes that is easier said than done. Should we expect a 70 year old widow to know her husband's ungraded caramel cards are in NM-MT condition as opposed to EXMT? Or that the T206 Doyle is the rare variation? Nobody can become enough of an expert that quickly to be able to fend for themselves in an environment that exists in most collectible fields.

Anyway, I did not take the quote out of context. I do not want to come off as argumentative but nothing you wrote before or after really that explained what you meant. Here is the whole statement which was made in its own mini paragraph: "Also, I have never understood the thought process that somehow the Consignor is somehow “owed” or “deserves” top dollar for their item, especially if they have no idea what it is or why it is worth money. There is nothing sacred about their claim any more than the collector that is looking to purchase an item and SURPRISE would love to find something for a good deal." And for the reasons I have stated, I simply do not agree with it but I am sure many here would support your position.