Another high end sticker -- "PC"??

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Well PSA might actually get interested now that I come to think of it, as it would be yet another opportunity for regrading. Half Points, Slab Changes etc have all been big money makers for PSA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Well PSA might actually get interested now that I come to think of it, as it would be yet another opportunity for regrading. Half Points, Slab Changes etc have all been big money makers for PSA.

I can see it now. 8E (for ELITE centering). LOL.

[Throttlesteer]

Maybe I'm just a little slow. But it seems centering is probably the easiest characteristic to determine with a grade. No magnification is necessary. Do I need a sticker to tell me a card has great centering? Nope. I just don't find it helpful at all. I get that centering seems to have overtaken corners as what's most important for the hobby. But the sticker isnt telling me something I cant already see with my own two eyes.

[mechanicalman]

I’ve bought many cards from Jeff and Brady over the years. I’ve paid a strong premium for every single one, but every price was well worth it for the quality. These two guys have been buying and selling cards that look outstanding for the grade for years, and it’s heavily influenced my collecting habits. Is their PC sticker a “gimmick” designed to command higher prices? Is it motivated by greed? No and no. Neither of these dudes are paying their mortgage from sales of baseball cards. They are not trying to squeeze an extra 5% profit with these stickers.

As Jesse has articulated, my sense is they are simply trying to bring attention to the fact that centered cards are commanding huge premiums in the market place, and perhaps it would benefit the TPGs to take notice and adjust their grading policies to keep up with the reality in the marketplace. Do I personally like any stickers on my holders? No, I do not. I crave simplicity and cleanliness. But I do support the bigger idea of the TPGs recognizing true eye appeal more than they currently do.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I don't understand the logic that the grading companies need to change because centered cards are realizing a premium. The grade is the grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I don't understand the logic that the grading companies need to change because centered cards are realizing a premium. The grade is the grade.

I don't follow it either. The centering is patently obvious from a scan, or personal inspection. And Beckett already gives subgrades for centering, at least for BGS grades, does anyone really care?

[swarmee]

This is one major reason PSA already went to half-grades: to recognize elite centering representative of higher grades. This sticker is gaudy, gimmicky, and a waste of time.
Claiming they want PSA to better notate centered cards makes me think they don't already understand PSA does that. I don't like any of the add-on stickers, FWIW.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

This is one major reason PSA already went to half-grades: to recognize elite centering representative of higher grades. This sticker is gaudy, gimmicky, and a waste of time.
Claiming they want PSA to better notate centered cards makes me think they don't already understand PSA does that. I don't like any of the add-on stickers, FWIW.

One man's elite centering is another man's eyesore. There are guys here who would have a breakdown if you put a 53 47 card in their collection haha. But while PSA grades can include a range of centering, again, anyone can see with their own eyes what the centering is. I don't think we need a sticker or qualifier or subgrade or whatever.

[mechanicalman]

My bad. You guys are right. The current grading protocols represent the pinnacle of perfection, and they should not be questioned.

If anything, from a purely personal standpoint, if positive qualifiers existed, there might be less incredulity expressed when someone pays the same price for a perfectly centered 4 as they would for a crappy 6.

[ruth_rookie]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I don't understand the logic that the grading companies need to change because centered cards are realizing a premium. The grade is the grade.

This.

And I really don’t want a “positive qualifier” on my flip any more than I want a negative qualifier, which is why I always check the no-qualifier box on my submissions. The grade is the grade. Just give me mine and let’s all move on to the next buy, sell, or trade.

With that said, we all agree that the grading process is far from perfect, and I applaud these guys for trying to improve it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I’ve bought many cards from Jeff and Brady over the years. I’ve paid a strong premium for every single one, but every price was well worth it for the quality. These two guys have been buying and selling cards that look outstanding for the grade for years, and it’s heavily influenced my collecting habits. Is their PC sticker a “gimmick” designed to command higher prices? Is it motivated by greed? No and no. Neither of these dudes are paying their mortgage from sales of baseball cards. They are not trying to squeeze an extra 5% profit with these stickers.

As Jesse has articulated, my sense is they are simply trying to bring attention to the fact that centered cards are commanding huge premiums in the market place, and perhaps it would benefit the TPGs to take notice and adjust their grading policies to keep up with the reality in the marketplace. Do I personally like any stickers on my holders? No, I do not. I crave simplicity and cleanliness. But I do support the bigger idea of the TPGs recognizing true eye appeal more than they currently do.

So the way to call attention to the huge prices centered cards command is to put a sticker on them and then charge a huge price? Something about that doesn't sit right.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So the way to call attention to the huge prices centered cards command is to put a sticker on them and then charge a huge price? Something about that doesn't sit right.

Collectors like myself and Sam are already paying big premium for centered cards. That won't change with or without the PC sticker. But these stickers or a positive psa qualifier might bring in bigger bids and offers from those who might not ordinarily make them. The qualifier could also bring in the same from the registry guys if bonus points are awarded.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Collectors like myself and Sam are already paying big premium for centered cards. That won't change with or without the PC sticker. But these stickers or a positive psa qualifier might bring in bigger bids and offers from those who might not ordinarily make them. The qualifier could also bring in the same from the registry guys if bonus points are awarded.

Again, the question I put to you before: what's your cutoff for the C, how do you propose measuring it, and does it apply to all cards or just before a certain year?

[mechanicalman]

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1800898]Again, the question I put to you before: what's your cutoff for the C, how do you propose measuring it, and does it apply to all cards or just before a certain year?[/QUOTE

Peter, this is not my thing, so I haven’t thought too much about it, but it’s cetainly not as hard as you think it is.

In fact, it wouldn’t be too difficult at all to set a scientific standard.

To me, I’d apply the qualifier to any card with the appearance of 50/50. Now, a T206 with 47/53 might actually appear to average eyes as 50/50. You could conduct some qualitative testing to ascertain what level of measurable centering falls within the parameters of appearing 50/50.

So it could be done with less subjectivity than you think.

All that said, qualifier or not, I’ll continue to pay strong for centered cards and some folks will continue to question those purchases. Not a big deal.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Again, the question I put to you before: what's your cutoff for the C, how do you propose measuring it, and does it apply to all cards or just before a certain year?

I'm not sure where the exact cutoff would be, but the goal should be so that the top 5-10% of any card would qualify. I'm sure PSA could figure something out. 53/47 or so should work for most vintage issues.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The qualifier could also bring in the same from the registry guys if bonus points are awarded.

A strong point.

[the 'stache]

Piccadilly Circus

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So the way to call attention to the huge prices centered cards command is to put a sticker on them and then charge a huge price? Something about that doesn't sit right.

Yeah, circular arguments never sit right.

The stickers don’t command the higher price. Consumers are already paying the high price for premium centering. Perhaps there should be recognition of the factors driving huge swings in price for the same grade. I’m not defending the stickers, as I don’t care for them, but I believe there’s merit in the recognition of eye appeal.

And yes, I know Beckett has/had centering grades. But how many vintage collectors care about BVG?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Yeah, circular arguments never sit right.

The stickers don’t command the higher price. Consumers are already paying the high price for premium centering. Perhaps there should be recognition of the factors driving huge swings in price for the same grade. I’m not defending the stickers, as I don’t care for them, but I believe there’s merit in the recognition of eye appeal.

And yes, I know Beckett has/had centering grades. But how many vintage collectors care about BVG?

But it IS recognized, that's the piece I am missing. If it's already happening, and to a point I will also pay more for better centering though I am less fanatical than some, why do we need to change anything?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

And yes, I know Beckett has/had centering grades. But how many vintage collectors care about BVG?

If it was that important, wouldn't people be crossing over their cards to BVG to take advantage of that 9.5 or 10 centering subgrade? Well, guess not, because BVG removed subgrades 5 years ago and has not brought them back.
Nobody is arguing that people aren't paying more for highly centered cards. You're arguing a straw man against yourself. Anyone who's been collecting graded vintage for more than 6 months knows that highly centered examples sell for more. You don't need to convince anybody.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

If it was that important, wouldn't people be crossing over their cards to BVG to take advantage of that 9.5 or 10 centering subgrade? Well, guess not, because BVG removed subgrades 5 years ago and has not brought them back.
Nobody is arguing that people aren't paying more for highly centered cards. You're arguing a straw man against yourself. Anyone who's been collecting graded vintage for more than 6 months knows that highly centered examples sell for more. You don't need to convince anybody.

They may need to convince themselves if they are requiring external validation? I don't mean that pejoratively, I just don't understand the point really.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I’ve bought many cards from Jeff and Brady over the years. I’ve paid a strong premium for every single one, but every price was well worth it for the quality. These two guys have been buying and selling cards that look outstanding for the grade for years, and it’s heavily influenced my collecting habits. Is their PC sticker a “gimmick” designed to command higher prices? Is it motivated by greed? No and no. Neither of these dudes are paying their mortgage from sales of baseball cards. They are not trying to squeeze an extra 5% profit with these stickers.

As Jesse has articulated, my sense is they are simply trying to bring attention to the fact that centered cards are commanding huge premiums in the market place, and perhaps it would benefit the TPGs to take notice and adjust their grading policies to keep up with the reality in the marketplace. Do I personally like any stickers on my holders? No, I do not. I crave simplicity and cleanliness. But I do support the bigger idea of the TPGs recognizing true eye appeal more than they currently do.

Well said. Why get your panties in a twist over a sticker? There are a lot of casual collectors that aren't as knowledgable as some on this board and might not know centering commands a premium in today's market. The stickers are for them and I think at the end of the day a fun way for Brady and Jeff to add a little of their own expertise to the mix.