Clemente: Inner circle of the elite, or on his way?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why does Carew get no love? His OBP SLG OPS and OPS+ are, interestingly and somewhat eerily really, virtually identical to Morgan. 7 batting titles. 3000 hits. Very high BA. Was it his fielding or lack thereof?

1. Not the best clutch hitter when the team really needed that big "2 out" hit in a close game.

2. No power whatsoever.... not many extra base hits.

3. No championships at all.

Morgan was a GREAT clutch hitter, had some surprising power, and won two World Championships. Granted, Carew played in Minnesota at a time that they were not great.

Those would be the 3 reasons that immediately come to mind. There's more to it than just stats on paper. But MLB did put the A.L. Batting Title in his name, and he was a great singles hitter.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

1. Not the best clutch hitter when the team really needed that big "2 out" hit in a close game.

2. No power whatsoever.... not many extra base hits.

3. No championships at all.

Morgan was a GREAT clutch hitter, had some surprising power, and won two World Championships. Granted, Carew played in Minnesota at a time that they were not great.

Those would be the 3 reasons that immediately come to mind. There's more to it than just stats on paper. But MLB did put the A.L. Batting Title in his name, and he was a great singles hitter.

His SLG was the same as Morgan's. Less power but a lot more hits.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Morgan was a GREAT clutch hitter

Define "clutch".

One measure of "clutch" situations is guys in scoring position. Morgan hit .261 with RISP. 2 outs and RISP, just .253.

"Late & Close", he hit .265.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Define "clutch".

One measure of "clutch" situations is guys in scoring position. Morgan hit .261 with RISP. 2 outs and RISP, just .253.

"Late & Close", he hit .265.

What about .329 with RISP, .319 2 outs and RISP and .343 late and close? Is that a clutch hitter?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Most assessments of someone's "clutch" hitting are anecdotal and biased. I very much doubt that over a career many players deviate significantly from their BA however you define "clutch" situations.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Most assessments of someone's "clutch" hitting are anecdotal and biased. I very much doubt that over a career many players deviate significantly from their BA however you define "clutch" situations.

Actual stats say you are wrong. Mike Trout is a career .306 hitter. 2 outs RISP .272. Late and close .252.

Barry Bonds .298 career hitter. 2 outs RISP .266. Late and close .275.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

Actual stats say you are wrong. Mike Trout is a career .306 hitter. 2 outs RISP .272. Late and close .252.

Barry Bonds .298 career hitter. 2 outs RISP .266. Late and close .275.

I said I doubt MANY players deviate much. I didn't say none did. That does not surprise me about Bonds. It very much surprises me about Trout, the God of WAR.

Are there players whose "clutch" numbers are substantially higher than their BA?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by rats60

What about .329 with RISP, .319 2 outs and RISP and .343 late and close? Is that a clutch hitter?

Who are we talking about?