T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Dpoolem3

Long time reader, first time poster

I'm in no way well versed on the t206 set though I have been collecting it for a few years(monster number around 400 or so) and a little while back I wanted to add more disappointment to my life and began a Tolstoi sub set which I am about 70 cards into.....and one thing I have noticed is out of those 70 cards roughly 50 of them have the ghost image of the Tolstoi back showing on the front of the card, far more rate of occurrence than other backs it's seems and it made me wonder....why?

What was different....did they use a different ink that dried slower? Did the guy that moved the sheets just not care about his job anymore? Was the ink used similar to newspaper ink and possibly a collector stacked them together in a humid area and it led to the ink bleeding onto the card behind it, a wet transfer but in an attic? Am I just imagining this whole thing?

I have noticed I have zero ghost images on any card with a red background.

Hi Dpoolem3

Welcome to the club.

Stacking these 108 year old cards together in a humid area (attic or otherwise) would not result in the ink bleeding onto the card behind it.

Would you mind listing these 50 cards in your collection that have this wet-ink "Tolstoi" transfer image on their fronts ?

I have an idea of how this occurred and I'm looking for a pattern in these cards that may tell us why.


TED Z
.

[Dpoolem3]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Dpoolem3

Welcome to the club.

Stacking these 108 year old cards together in a humid area (attic or otherwise) would not result in the ink bleeding onto the card behind it.

Would you mind listing these 50 cards in your collection that have this wet-ink "Tolstoi" transfer image on their fronts ?

I have an idea of how this occurred and I'm looking for a pattern in these cards that may tell us why.


TED Z
.

Having a yard sale this morning, as soon as I'm done I will get them out of the safe and post a list of each card and either yes or no in regards to the wst. Realistically it's going to be about half and half probably. I also have 2 Tolstoi's that I bought from separate people that were in the same box at one point because both have a water stain in the exact same area like they were stored upright and water got into whatever they were in and stained both cards(of the same player) in the exact same spot. Be after lunch but I'll have the list posted up by then.

[tsalem]

Just in the door...

[tedzan]

Double post.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tsalem

Just in the door...

Great looking card, Tom. Thanks for posting it.


TED Z
.

[Luke]

Here are most of mine:

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *



Due to their very close affiliation, I refer to these 350 Series T206's as the A-B-C-D connection


Time to switch off to a side-track in order to compare similar printing patterns between the T206 & T205 sets. In the Summer of 1910, American Lithographic (ALC)
introduced a new set of T-brands (AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM). My research shows that ALC printed 190 subjects from the 350 series with
each of these 4 backs. I like the similar stylistic design of these backs, and I refer to this pattern as the "A-B-C-D connection". For more info check-out thread......
T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection"


In 1911, when ALC was producing the T205 cards, they repeated the A-B-C-D connection for 32 subjects in this set. More info regarding this, check-out this theory
presented on this forum in a November 2014 thread....... T205 DRUM vs HINDU......


T205 A=B=C=D pattern

. . .

The key factor in this A = B = C = D equation is the Black American Beauty back. NOTE that a T205 subject with a Green American Beauty back
will NOT be found with a DRUM back.


T205 A-B-C-D connection.......32 subjects

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert

Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter

The above 5 subjects in bold letters have yet to be confirmed with the DRUM back. But, they already have been confirmed with the A - B - C backs.
Therefore, I expect these 5 subjects will eventually be discovered with the DRUM back.


.


Hey guys,
If perhaps you may have any one of these 5 missing DRUM cards....please by all means chime in here. Especially, if you have Huggins or Lobert.



Furthermore, after completing my 209-card T205 set [including the Hoblitzell (no stats)]......I continued my T205 "hunt" by forming these A-B-C-D sub-sets.
Here is an example of my favorite......








TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


.. v ................................ 19" x 24" standard size sheet ...................................v

.... Simulated sheet of the T206 "Exclusive 12" subjects in the 460-only series


I refer to the Minor Leaguers as the Exclusive 12 of the T205 set. As is obvious, their front designs differ considerably from the Major League subjects in the T205 set.
These cards were printed at the tail-end of the T205 production run in the Fall/Winter of 1911. This timeline is evident from the bio descriptions on the backs of these
cards. And, they were printed with only two T-brand advertisements on their backs....either HASSAN or POLAR BEAR.

Illustrated here is my concept of a printed sheet of 96 cards which fit on a 19" x 24" standard size cardboard sheet of that era.

T205 Minor Leaguers (12 subjects)













TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Dpoolem3

Having a yard sale this morning, as soon as I'm done I will get them out of the safe and post a list of each card and either yes or no in regards to the wst. Realistically it's going to be about half and half probably. I also have 2 Tolstoi's that I bought from separate people that were in the same box at one point because both have a water stain in the exact same area like they were stored upright and water got into whatever they were in and stained both cards(of the same player) in the exact same spot. Be after lunch but I'll have the list posted up by then.

Hi Dpoolem3

When you get a chance, could you provide a list of only the wet-ink "Tolstoi" transfer cards you have.

It's not necessary to list all your Tolstoi cards.


Thanks,

TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Hi Luke

Thanks for posting your BROAD LEAF cards.

I like the Willett....I'm doing an A-B-C-C-D run of his cards.


TED Z
.

[Dpoolem3]

Lake no ball Y
Ball Y
Elberfield Y
J Collins N
H Smith N
Camnitz arm side N
Krause N
Davidson N
Ames hands above head N
Chance yellow N
Cobb red N
Rucker N
Doyle w bat Y
Sheckard glove show Y
McQuillan Y
Devore Y
Magee N
Rucker N
Milan Y
Pelty vertical Y
McGraw glove hip Y
Merkle throwing Y
Bergen catching Y
Shannon N
Manning pitching N
Campell N
O'Leary hands knees Y
Wiltse pitching N
Rudolph N
Pfeffer Y
Overall Y
Needham N
Stovall bat Y
Sheckard N
Ferguson N
Ferguson N
Stahl N
Donlin N
McIntyre N
Street N
Street N
Dygert N
Huggins Y
Pfeffer N
O'Leary knees N
Lord N
Perring Y
Ford N
Geyer Y
Reulbach Y
Ames N

So like I said..I have 20 wst out of my 50 Tolstois...meh close enough for government work.

How does Tolstoi compare to other brands as far as wst's, seem more common with Tolstoi.

[tedzan]

Hi Dpoolem3

Here's the break-down of your YES cards with respect to the series they were printed in.

I was looking for a consistent series pattern to explain your Tolstoi wet ink transfers.
And, there really doesn't appear to be a pattern.

350-only series
-----------------
Huggins
Milan
Perring

350/460 series
-----------------
Doyle w bat Y
Elberfield Y
Lake no ball Y
McQuillan Y
O'Leary hands knees Y
Overall Y (yellow sky) ........ ?
Pelty vertical Y
Reulbach Y

460-only series
-----------------
Ball
Bergen catching Y
Devore Y
Geyer Y
McGraw glove hip Y
Merkle throwing Y
Overall (blue sky) .............. ?
Pfeffer Y
Sheckard glove show Y
Stovall bat Y

By the way, which Overall card do you have listed ? ?


TED Z
.

[Dpoolem3]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Dpoolem3

Here's the break-down of your YES cards with respect to the series they were printed in.

I was looking for a consistent series pattern to explain your Tolstoi wet ink transfers.
And, there really doesn't appear to be a pattern.

350-only series
-----------------
Huggins
Milan
Perring

350/460 series
-----------------
Doyle w bat Y
Elberfield Y
Lake no ball Y
McQuillan Y
O'Leary hands knees Y
Overall Y (yellow sky) ........ ?
Pelty vertical Y
Reulbach Y

460-only series
-----------------
Ball
Bergen catching Y
Devore Y
Geyer Y
McGraw glove hip Y
Merkle throwing Y
Overall (blue sky) .............. ?
Pfeffer Y
Sheckard glove show Y
Stovall bat Y

By the way, which Overall card do you have listed ? ?


TED Z
.

Hands at waist level