Has T206 Ty Cobb Greenback TOPPED OUT

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

That's not what clearly means. I'd take the greatest pitcher ever over the 4th(?) best hitter ever.

I think you could fairly rank Cobb anywhere from 2nd (behind Ruth) to 4th (behind Ruth Williams and Mays).

I don't think you could fairly rank Johnson behind anyone.

That said, pitchers are never going to approach hitters in terms of card values.

[joshuanip]

Leon - My guess is that its the least pop and a portrait, so it checks all collector the boxes from player, type, scarcity characteristics. That said, I think the bat off shoulder aesthetically is his best card in the set.

Dmitry - Here is a good pop article on the T206 Cobb versions, there is more greens than people think...

https://prewarcards.com/2017/09/29/t...ckett-grading/

Ryan - Good comparison on the Ruth's. The (yellow) #53 is similar to the green cobb, but I personally like the one below better, I guess its the "bat off shoulder" version...but his bat is on his shoulder...

[Leon]

144 Ruth....That there is a great card, I want it.

Back to the green Cobb....I guess if I did T206 I might like the green better because of scarcity, and they do look great, but I think it is red as my fave....followed by one of the bat versions....but green is in the hunt there too as nice specimens can really pop.

Originally Posted by joshuanip

Leon - My guess is that its the least pop and a portrait, so it checks all collector the boxes from player, type, scarcity characteristics. That said, I think the bat off shoulder aesthetically is his best card in the set.

Dmitry - Here is a good pop article on the T206 Cobb versions, there is more greens than people think...

https://prewarcards.com/2017/09/29/t...ckett-grading/

Ryan - Good comparison on the Ruth's. The (yellow) #53 is similar to the green cobb, but I personally like the one below better, I guess its the "bat off shoulder" version...but his bat is on his shoulder...

[Touch'EmAll]

Ok, yes, more greens than people think. However, what about when you get out of the low grade stuff and into the true PSA 5 and higher? I understand the pops really drop off.

[esd10]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think you could fairly rank Cobb anywhere from 2nd (behind Ruth) to 4th (behind Ruth Williams and Mays).

I don't think you could fairly rank Johnson behind anyone.

That said, pitchers are never going to approach hitters in terms of card values.

I think Cobb is the greatest hitter in baseball history and that means better than ruth just look at the hof induction numbers. These votes had been cast right after these to greats careers just ended and cobb had more votes than ruth

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by esd10

I think Cobb is the greatest hitter in baseball history and that means better than ruth just look at the hof induction numbers. These votes had been cast right after these to greats careers just ended and cobb had more votes than ruth

1936 HOF Voting

Player / Vote % / War7
1 Ty Cobb 98.2% 69.2
2 Babe Ruth 95.1% 84.7
3 Honus Wagner 95.1% 65.4
4 Christy Mathewson 90.7% 68.5
5 Walter Johnson 83.6% 89.5

Devil's advocate - Matty had a higher vote % than WaJo, but many/most consider the latter to be the best pitcher of all time. Johnson had a better 7 year peak performance than any of those guys yet only placed 5th on the ballot.

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

1936 HOF Voting

Player / Vote % / War7
1 Ty Cobb 98.2% 69.2
2 Babe Ruth 95.1% 84.7
3 Honus Wagner 95.1% 65.4
4 Christy Mathewson 90.7% 68.5
5 Walter Johnson 83.6% 89.5

Devil's advocate - Matty had a higher vote % than WaJo, but many/most consider the latter to be the best pitcher of all time. Johnson had a better 7 year peak performance than any of those guys yet only placed 5th on the ballot.

They were all great. Matty is #1 below. Haha.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndica...-time.amp.html

In all seriousness, the induction list screwed up the voting tally for the 19th century players. I bet you that cy would have been in the first class had they not discount the veterans vote by half and still kept the 75% threshold. Could be a good thing too, excluded cap.

[Touch'EmAll]

Couple things to consider.

Ty Cobb was primarily a dead ball era player. The emphasis on power and home runs was extremely minimal. Cobb was a large man for the era - at least 6'1" and 175-180 lbs. If Cobb came along 15 years later, I suspect his power/HR numbers would infact be significant.

And his cards, especially the green, could be quite a bit overstated on population. I bet a lot of his cards have been sent in to PSA/SGC multiple times trying to squeeze out the highest grade possible. This is especially true when you get to the true VG/EX to EX+ grade cards. When you see the PSA pops on, say, an EX 5 how reliable is that number? I have seen quite a few green Cobb's that are off centered and/or with other problems - which can pose troubles for true investment caliber status.

[packs]

Cobb led the league in slugging 6 years in a row during the dead ball era. I think it's reasonable to assume if he were at his peak in the lively ball era he'd have done some serious damage. He was 33 when Ruth (age 25) hit 54 in 1920, so he was well over his physical peak by the time the ball started jumping. He averaged 39 doubles and 16 triples a season over his career.

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by packs

Cobb led the league in slugging 6 years in a row during the dead ball era. I think it's reasonable to assume if he were at his peak in the lively ball era he'd have done some serious damage. He was 33 when Ruth (age 25) hit 54 in 1920, so he was well over his physical peak by the time the ball started jumping. He averaged 39 doubles and 16 triples a season over his career.

But that wasn’t his style. He would have still “hit em where you ain’t” if he had played in the 30’s.

Look at Ted, he pulled the ball even after the Williams shift. Imagine how many seasons above 400 he would have been had he gone the other way.

[packs]

Originally Posted by joshuanip

But that wasn’t his style. He would have still “hit em where you ain’t” if he had played in the 30’s.

Look at Ted, he pulled the ball even after the Williams shift. Imagine how many seasons above 400 he would have been had he gone the other way.

An indicator of power potential in a young player is the amount of doubles they hit early on in their minor league career. Cobb was a doubles machine behind only Speaker really. I think the two of them would have mashed even if they weren't trying to hit home runs.

[griffon512]

premiums on strong eye appeal -- with a focus on centering -- is where you are seeing the largest percentage increases in vintage overall. we have seen that be a consistent trend over the last year. very well centered cobbs with strong eye appeal are getting up to 100% premiums versus "average" cobbs. i think that trend continues, as it adds an unknown scarcity value to whatever the pop report says. in good economic times, the unknown part can get frothy. there's certainly some froth in our hobby, but isn't that what the federal reserve/central banks have tried to engineer since the great recession? mission accomplished! who says there is no free lunch?

[brianp-beme]

As a collector you can't go wrong with any of the Cobb T206 cards. The Bat Off is probably the most aesthetically pleasing, the Green and Red are both nice portraits, but I have always had a soft spot for the Bat On. It is Cobb's one T206 card that depicts best both the competitive and ornery side of his personality, which of course is what drove him to such great baseball heights, and the aspect of his career and life that has continued to fascinate us about him a century later.

Brian