New Blog Post. BOND BREAD JACKIE ROBINSON!!!!

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Agree with the analysis, James, except that last bit. Popularity of a later card can outpace a RC. The 1951 Bowman Mantle will never top the 1952 Topps Mantle. The W600 Wagner won't touch the T206. And so on.

Might I ask what examples there are other than those two? An iconic set can make a later issue more valuable, but that’s certainly the exception and 1948 Leaf is no T206 or 52 Topps.

I expect the BB Portrait to become the top Jackie card. It’s relative scarcity and attractiveness appeal to me in addition to it being Jackie’s RC.

If you go back about 5 years ago the iconic 1948 (actually '49) Leaf Jackie Robinson card was readily available in mid-grade PSA 5 for anywhere between 1K to $1200, then the Jackie Robinson movie came out and that card ascended to $3500-$4k essentially over night. Same thing is happening with the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait only, instead of thousands of copies, there's closer to 125 graded between companies. The card still has room to grow and I expect it will as collectors become better informed about the set and this card in particular...which is the true RC of one of the most influential people, much less ballplayer, of all-time.

[Stonepony]

Put me in the camp which does not consider the Bond Bread card ( portrait/auto facsimile) Robinson's rookie card. To reply to a statement above- I paraphrase- "Don't I consider a distribution in 18 major cities a nationwide distribution?". Absolutely not!!. Bond Bread distributed in 18 states and it's likely the early portrait card was released in a very small regional area ( Harlem, Brooklyn...) and it was only the subsequent cards over the next 2 years that were released in " major markets" ( well....18 cities)
If my dad couldn't walk down to his father's drugstore in Emporia, KS and get the card... or at least get one in Kansas City then it's not nationwide. Could he get a 48 Leaf or Bowman- yep and he did. Thats not to single out Kansas. There were
30 other states that Bond Bread did not distribute in ( Alaska and Hawaii were not states yet). Heck did they even have a factory west of the Mississippi??
To me the Bond Bread Robinson is a glorified/ expanded Regional issue. As a regional card collector- I'd better step up and get me one sometime.
Let me be clear- I'm not suggesting the Bond Bread card won't pass by the Leaf or Bowman issues in value or popularity. I have no idea of course. From MY perspective the Robinson Rookies are those absolutely beautiful, colored 1948 ( 1949) leaf and Bowman cards.

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Put me in the camp which does not consider the Bond Bread card ( portrait/auto facsimile) Robinson's rookie card. To reply to a statement above- I paraphrase- "Don't I consider a distribution in 18 major cities a nationwide distribution?". Absolutely not!!. Bond Bread distributed in 18 states and it's likely the early portrait card was released in a very small regional area ( Harlem, Brooklyn...) and it was only the subsequent cards over the next 2 years that were released in " major markets" ( well....18 cities)
If my dad couldn't walk down to his father's drugstore in Emporia, KS and get the card... or at least get one in Kansas City then it's not nationwide. Could he get a 48 Leaf or Bowman- yep and he did. Thats not to single out Kansas. There were
30 other states that Bond Bread did not distribute in ( Alaska and Hawaii were not states yet). Heck did they even have a factory west of the Mississippi??
To me the Bond Bread Robinson is a glorified/ expanded Regional issue. As a regional card collector- I'd better step up and get me one sometime.
Let me be clear- I'm not suggesting the Bond Bread card won't pass by the Leaf or Bowman issues in value or popularity. I have no idea of course. From MY perspective the Robinson Rookies are those absolutely beautiful, colored 1948 ( 1949) leaf and Bowman cards.

So you simply choose to ignore the research that debunks that myth. If memory serves me Kansas City was one of the markets it was distributed in, but either way it's been fairly well documented that BB's were distributed in, at minimum, 13 metropolitan cities across the country. Not sure how that qualifies as a regional issue, or even a glorified regional issue, but I'm not a regional collector.

[Stonepony]

No I'm not debunking any myths. I'm just going by what pieces of the puzzle I've seen or read. No, I don't consider 13 metropolitan cities a nationwide distribution. Actually, I consider that small. My family and extended family is from KC ( as am I) and know one has heard of Bond Bread. That's neither here nor there, and my view is just an opinion which may be an incompletely educated one. My calling the set a " glorified regional" set was obviously a little over the top... which was my intent. I'm always ready to learn all I can in this hobby. Could you
tell me what myth I cited? Do you know the regions the portrait card was distributed? I thought it was only a very small distribution ( Brooklyn, Harlem and other NY areas)?

Originally Posted by Stonepony

No I'm not debunking any myths. I'm just going by what pieces of the puzzle I've seen or read. No, I don't consider 13 metropolitan cities a nationwide distribution. Actually, I consider that small. My family and extended family is from KC ( as am I) and know one has heard of Bond Bread. That's neither here nor there, and my view is just an opinion which may be an incompletely educated one. My calling the set a " glorified regional" set was obviously a little over the top... which was my intent. I'm always ready to learn all I can in this hobby. Could you
tell me what myth I cited? Do you know the regions the portrait card was distributed? I thought it was only a very small distribution ( Brooklyn, Harlem and other NY areas)?

Dave, I would suggest reading this thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171169

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Dave, I would suggest reading this thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171169

I remember that thread and reread it. The photos are no longer posted.
Although I applaud the research and photo dating... the thread doesn't bring me any closer to knowing where the cards were distributed... and for that matter exactly when. The window is certainly proven and precedes the 1948 leaf and Bowman issues almost certainly. The portrait card is described as a " promo card" by the researchers. There's a lot of " we believe", " may have been",
" we speculate " language in there. I'll never consider a promo card a true rookie card and for me the area of distribution is way to small. I'm standing by my opinion.. but great stuff!!! i just love the 49 Bowman too much to budge

[CharleyBrown]

Dave,

I respect your opinion, but you are wrong on the distribution of the promo card being limited to Harlem and Brooklyn NYC.

The portrait has already passed the 49 Bowman in terms of price.

Newly surfaced photos now indicate that the 6 cards distributed in early 1948 all feature images from the game before opening day. Will update my original thread when possible. I do not want to out an auction for those bidding.

[nsaddict]

Hmmm.... sounds like this could be an interesting poll question?

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

So you simply choose to ignore the research that debunks that myth. If memory serves me Kansas City was one of the markets it was distributed in, but either way it's been fairly well documented that BB's were distributed in, at minimum, 13 metropolitan cities across the country. Not sure how that qualifies as a regional issue, or even a glorified regional issue, but I'm not a regional collector.

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

Completely agree. Why should we define what is a RC based on some arbitrary concept of geographic distribution? Baseball wasn't available nationally; there were no MLB teams west of St. Louis. Should we consider the PCL a major league because it played where MLB was 1,000 miles away?

Nevermind

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

It's an opinion which I've clearly stated may be my own, alone. Thanks for the harsh statements.

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

I can only guess people are trying to protect their investments (1948/49 Leaf and 49 Bowman) which is understandable but funny to me because, as has already been mentioned, those cards (particularly the 1949 Leaf) are iconic and aren't going to lose their value either way. Conversely, imagine what would happen if the PSA registry recognized the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait as his true RC? Its already exploded regardless, almost completely due to the research provided on this board

[guy3050]

I love all My Jackie's

IMG_0782 by Guy Bourque, on Flickr

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Anish

Might I ask what examples there are other than those two? An iconic set can make a later issue more valuable, but that’s certainly the exception and 1948 Leaf is no T206 or 52 Topps.

I expect the BB Portrait to become the top Jackie card. It’s relative scarcity and attractiveness appeal to me in addition to it being Jackie’s RC.

I differ with you there; the Leaf set is iconic. Though I would love for you to be right since I don't own a Leaf JR but have the BB portrait.

As for later cards worth more than a RC:

1951 Topps Current All Stars Roberts vs. 1949 Bowman Roberts

Test issue doesn't work? OK:

1941 Double Play Reese vs. 1953 Bowman: $775 PSA 8 vs. $1300 PSA 8
1941 Double Play Rizzuto vs. 1948 Leaf: $1,000 PSA 8 vs. $1100 PSA 8
1947 Top Top Bread Yogi Berra PSA 8 $1250 vs. 1948 Bowman PSA 8 $3,000

I am sure I could pot-shot examples out of the SMR all day long.

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I differ with you there; the Leaf set is iconic. Though I would love for you to be right since I don't own a Leaf JR but have the BB portrait.

As for later cards worth more than a RC:

1951 Topps Current All Stars Roberts vs. 1949 Bowman Roberts

Test issue doesn't work? OK:

1941 Double Play Reese vs. 1953 Bowman: $775 PSA 8 vs. $1300 PSA 8
1941 Double Play Rizzuto vs. 1948 Leaf: $1,000 PSA 8 vs. $1100 PSA 8
1947 Top Top Bread Yogi Berra PSA 8 $1250 vs. 1948 Bowman PSA 8 $3,000

I am sure I could pot-shot examples out of the SMR all day long.

The Berra example is probably the most comparable. However, SMR doesn't mean anything. It would be great to see recent sales of the cards in the same condition (perhaps you have).