New Blog Post. BOND BREAD JACKIE ROBINSON!!!!

[Exhibitman]

Agree with the analysis, James, except that last bit. Popularity of a later card can outpace a RC. The 1951 Bowman Mantle will never top the 1952 Topps Mantle. The W600 Wagner won't touch the T206. And so on.

[guy3050]

I have both , I don't really care about which one is his rookie card , I would take his leaf card any day over his Bonds Bread , His leaf has and will always be an iconic Baseball Card , and one that I always wanted since I started collecting many years ago.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by guy3050

I have both , I don't really care about which one is his rookie card , I would take his leaf card any day over his Bonds Bread , His leaf has and will always be an iconic Baseball Card , and one that I always wanted since I started collecting many years ago.

I don't have either card, so I don't any financial stake in one or the other. But I don't see the Bond Bread portrait supplanting the Leaf card as the Robinson card to have. The Leaf card is such an iconic image, the image that many people think of when they think of a Jackie Robinson card.

I think the fact that the Bond Bread card is black and white and the Leaf is in color hurts the Bond Bread card as well. Obviously, there are many black and white cards in the hobby that are worth huge money, but I do think it limits the chance of the card becoming the iconic Robinson card to own when there are color options issued so closely to the Bond Bread card.

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I don't have either card, so I don't any financial stake in one or the other. But I don't see the Bond Bread portrait supplanting the Leaf card as the Robinson card to have. The Leaf card is such an iconic image, the image that many people think of when they think of a Jackie Robinson card.

I think the fact that the Bond Bread card is black and white and the Leaf is in color hurts the Bond Bread card as well. Obviously, there are many black and white cards in the hobby that are worth huge money, but I do think it limits the chance of the card becoming the iconic Robinson card to own when there are color options issued so closely to the Bond Bread card.

The scarcity of the BB makes it more appealing to me and, I imagine, others. The Leaf is available in various conditions quite readily whereas the BB is not.

I myself thought of the Leaf as the *the* Jackie card until I read about the BB. It came out earlier, is harder to find, and IMO looks as nice if not nicer. That makes it the best card to me.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Anish

The scarcity of the BB makes it more appealing to me and, I imagine, others. The Leaf is available in various conditions quite readily whereas the BB is not.

I myself thought of the Leaf as the *the* Jackie card until I read about the BB. It came out earlier, is harder to find, and IMO looks as nice if not nicer. That makes it the best card to me.

I get the scarcity factor. I love the rare and obscure myself (not saying the Bond Bread is rare or obscure).

There are numerous Mickey Mantle cards that are scarce or obscure, yet they are not the 1952 Topps. The Robinson Leaf card will always be iconic, even though it is not a rare card by any stretch of the imagination.

I still think being black and white hurts the Bond Bread card.

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I get the scarcity factor. I love the rare and obscure myself (not saying the Bond Bread is rare or obscure).

There are numerous Mickey Mantle cards that are scarce or obscure, yet they are not the 1952 Topps. The Robinson Leaf card will always be iconic, even though it is not a rare card by any stretch of the imagination.

I still think being black and white hurts the Bond Bread card.

Sure, but they don’t predate the 52 Topps either. I can understand why someone would pay more for a 52T Mantle than a 51 Bowman or anything else...it’s the key card in the first ever Topps set. But for 48 Leaf? Jackie’s not even the biggest RC (Paige) and Leaf didn’t have the greatest run. I do like the Robinson Leaf aesthetically, but I’ll take a card that came out nearly two years earlier and is much harder to find every time.

I think an interesting comparison is with the Jordan 84 Star and 86 Fleer. The latter is certainly iconic (even more so than the 48 Leaf Jackie) but sells for less in the same condition than the 84 Star. Scarcity carries the day in that case.

I wouldn’t be surprised if people preferred the look of the Leaf. I’m probably in the minority in preferring black and white cards as black and white screams vintage to me.

As a hockey and soccer collector who is really only interested in Jackie as far as baseball goes, I’d hope to see the BB remain affordable. But I don’t expect it to.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Agree with the analysis, James, except that last bit. Popularity of a later card can outpace a RC. The 1951 Bowman Mantle will never top the 1952 Topps Mantle. The W600 Wagner won't touch the T206. And so on.

adam, you are right and there are a number of exceptions to the rule. i'm speculating that over time the relative value of the bond bread portrait and homogenized bond bread card will continue to increase while that of the leaf/bowman will decline given the disparity in population, attractiveness imo of the bond bread cards, and shift in conventional wisdom to seeing these as his true rookie cards following the price increases that have already taken place. i think the old gold dugout card -- also released in '47 -- is still an excellent relative value but recognize it may have less upside as an oversized card (similar to price disparity between a '39 playball williams and his '39 goudey premium). obviously the market's opinion on the relative value of a rookie card or the designation of actually being a rookie card can change drastically over time.

best example of that over the last few years has been the '25 exhibit gehrig, which most hobbyists didn't pay much attention to a few years ago because exhibits couldn't classify as rookie cards. i think it was in 2015 that prices started to increase to high single digit thousands on low grade versions from staying in the mid-single digit thousand range for many years. that got more people talking about the card and auction prices began to gap up. call it a self-fulfilling prophecy or the tail wagging the dog, but the higher prices paid by a few hobbyists initially led to the change in conventional wisdom: that the '25 exhibit is gehrig's true rookie card and is worth a boatload of money. i don't expect the jackie rookies to have the same upside -- and one can argue that the bond bread portrait already had its inflection -- but at the very least i think they are good relative values.

[Exhibitman]

I certainly thought it was a good value when I got mine.

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Agree with the analysis, James, except that last bit. Popularity of a later card can outpace a RC. The 1951 Bowman Mantle will never top the 1952 Topps Mantle. The W600 Wagner won't touch the T206. And so on.

Might I ask what examples there are other than those two? An iconic set can make a later issue more valuable, but that’s certainly the exception and 1948 Leaf is no T206 or 52 Topps.

I expect the BB Portrait to become the top Jackie card. It’s relative scarcity and attractiveness appeal to me in addition to it being Jackie’s RC.

If you go back about 5 years ago the iconic 1948 (actually '49) Leaf Jackie Robinson card was readily available in mid-grade PSA 5 for anywhere between 1K to $1200, then the Jackie Robinson movie came out and that card ascended to $3500-$4k essentially over night. Same thing is happening with the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait only, instead of thousands of copies, there's closer to 125 graded between companies. The card still has room to grow and I expect it will as collectors become better informed about the set and this card in particular...which is the true RC of one of the most influential people, much less ballplayer, of all-time.

[Stonepony]

Put me in the camp which does not consider the Bond Bread card ( portrait/auto facsimile) Robinson's rookie card. To reply to a statement above- I paraphrase- "Don't I consider a distribution in 18 major cities a nationwide distribution?". Absolutely not!!. Bond Bread distributed in 18 states and it's likely the early portrait card was released in a very small regional area ( Harlem, Brooklyn...) and it was only the subsequent cards over the next 2 years that were released in " major markets" ( well....18 cities)
If my dad couldn't walk down to his father's drugstore in Emporia, KS and get the card... or at least get one in Kansas City then it's not nationwide. Could he get a 48 Leaf or Bowman- yep and he did. Thats not to single out Kansas. There were
30 other states that Bond Bread did not distribute in ( Alaska and Hawaii were not states yet). Heck did they even have a factory west of the Mississippi??
To me the Bond Bread Robinson is a glorified/ expanded Regional issue. As a regional card collector- I'd better step up and get me one sometime.
Let me be clear- I'm not suggesting the Bond Bread card won't pass by the Leaf or Bowman issues in value or popularity. I have no idea of course. From MY perspective the Robinson Rookies are those absolutely beautiful, colored 1948 ( 1949) leaf and Bowman cards.

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Put me in the camp which does not consider the Bond Bread card ( portrait/auto facsimile) Robinson's rookie card. To reply to a statement above- I paraphrase- "Don't I consider a distribution in 18 major cities a nationwide distribution?". Absolutely not!!. Bond Bread distributed in 18 states and it's likely the early portrait card was released in a very small regional area ( Harlem, Brooklyn...) and it was only the subsequent cards over the next 2 years that were released in " major markets" ( well....18 cities)
If my dad couldn't walk down to his father's drugstore in Emporia, KS and get the card... or at least get one in Kansas City then it's not nationwide. Could he get a 48 Leaf or Bowman- yep and he did. Thats not to single out Kansas. There were
30 other states that Bond Bread did not distribute in ( Alaska and Hawaii were not states yet). Heck did they even have a factory west of the Mississippi??
To me the Bond Bread Robinson is a glorified/ expanded Regional issue. As a regional card collector- I'd better step up and get me one sometime.
Let me be clear- I'm not suggesting the Bond Bread card won't pass by the Leaf or Bowman issues in value or popularity. I have no idea of course. From MY perspective the Robinson Rookies are those absolutely beautiful, colored 1948 ( 1949) leaf and Bowman cards.

So you simply choose to ignore the research that debunks that myth. If memory serves me Kansas City was one of the markets it was distributed in, but either way it's been fairly well documented that BB's were distributed in, at minimum, 13 metropolitan cities across the country. Not sure how that qualifies as a regional issue, or even a glorified regional issue, but I'm not a regional collector.

[Stonepony]

No I'm not debunking any myths. I'm just going by what pieces of the puzzle I've seen or read. No, I don't consider 13 metropolitan cities a nationwide distribution. Actually, I consider that small. My family and extended family is from KC ( as am I) and know one has heard of Bond Bread. That's neither here nor there, and my view is just an opinion which may be an incompletely educated one. My calling the set a " glorified regional" set was obviously a little over the top... which was my intent. I'm always ready to learn all I can in this hobby. Could you
tell me what myth I cited? Do you know the regions the portrait card was distributed? I thought it was only a very small distribution ( Brooklyn, Harlem and other NY areas)?

Originally Posted by Stonepony

No I'm not debunking any myths. I'm just going by what pieces of the puzzle I've seen or read. No, I don't consider 13 metropolitan cities a nationwide distribution. Actually, I consider that small. My family and extended family is from KC ( as am I) and know one has heard of Bond Bread. That's neither here nor there, and my view is just an opinion which may be an incompletely educated one. My calling the set a " glorified regional" set was obviously a little over the top... which was my intent. I'm always ready to learn all I can in this hobby. Could you
tell me what myth I cited? Do you know the regions the portrait card was distributed? I thought it was only a very small distribution ( Brooklyn, Harlem and other NY areas)?

Dave, I would suggest reading this thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171169

[nsaddict]

Hmmm.... sounds like this could be an interesting poll question?

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

So you simply choose to ignore the research that debunks that myth. If memory serves me Kansas City was one of the markets it was distributed in, but either way it's been fairly well documented that BB's were distributed in, at minimum, 13 metropolitan cities across the country. Not sure how that qualifies as a regional issue, or even a glorified regional issue, but I'm not a regional collector.

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

Completely agree. Why should we define what is a RC based on some arbitrary concept of geographic distribution? Baseball wasn't available nationally; there were no MLB teams west of St. Louis. Should we consider the PCL a major league because it played where MLB was 1,000 miles away?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

It's an opinion which I've clearly stated may be my own, alone. Thanks for the harsh statements.

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

I can only guess people are trying to protect their investments (1948/49 Leaf and 49 Bowman) which is understandable but funny to me because, as has already been mentioned, those cards (particularly the 1949 Leaf) are iconic and aren't going to lose their value either way. Conversely, imagine what would happen if the PSA registry recognized the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait as his true RC? Its already exploded regardless, almost completely due to the research provided on this board

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Anish

Might I ask what examples there are other than those two? An iconic set can make a later issue more valuable, but that’s certainly the exception and 1948 Leaf is no T206 or 52 Topps.

I expect the BB Portrait to become the top Jackie card. It’s relative scarcity and attractiveness appeal to me in addition to it being Jackie’s RC.

I differ with you there; the Leaf set is iconic. Though I would love for you to be right since I don't own a Leaf JR but have the BB portrait.

As for later cards worth more than a RC:

1951 Topps Current All Stars Roberts vs. 1949 Bowman Roberts

Test issue doesn't work? OK:

1941 Double Play Reese vs. 1953 Bowman: $775 PSA 8 vs. $1300 PSA 8
1941 Double Play Rizzuto vs. 1948 Leaf: $1,000 PSA 8 vs. $1100 PSA 8
1947 Top Top Bread Yogi Berra PSA 8 $1250 vs. 1948 Bowman PSA 8 $3,000

I am sure I could pot-shot examples out of the SMR all day long.

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I differ with you there; the Leaf set is iconic. Though I would love for you to be right since I don't own a Leaf JR but have the BB portrait.

As for later cards worth more than a RC:

1951 Topps Current All Stars Roberts vs. 1949 Bowman Roberts

Test issue doesn't work? OK:

1941 Double Play Reese vs. 1953 Bowman: $775 PSA 8 vs. $1300 PSA 8
1941 Double Play Rizzuto vs. 1948 Leaf: $1,000 PSA 8 vs. $1100 PSA 8
1947 Top Top Bread Yogi Berra PSA 8 $1250 vs. 1948 Bowman PSA 8 $3,000

I am sure I could pot-shot examples out of the SMR all day long.

The Berra example is probably the most comparable. However, SMR doesn't mean anything. It would be great to see recent sales of the cards in the same condition (perhaps you have).