Rookie Cards of Baseball Hall of Famers

[w600]

Alexander.. Hard for me to consider a gaming card a rookie card. I prefer 1914 Fatima/Cracker Jack

Anson...1987 N172 included

Walter Johnson and Tris Speaker... I get it if you want to consider Postcards rookie's I dont.. for me 1909 Ramly/T206 and 1909 T206/Caramel for Speaker.

Christy Matthewson.. 1903 W600 Type 2.. It actually predated Breisch by 6 months.

Wagner.. 1897 Reccius was a promo card.. Still a controversial card.. I respect the Wagner 1902 W600 as Rookie..

Cy Young.. 1890 Ryder Cabinet, 1891-92 Ryder in SCP auction now (first uniform), 1893 Pifer was actually released before Just so. They used Pifer photo for Just so.

Team Cards I also don't count..They were promo for players many times the player didn't even start with the team that year but had a picture in uniform.

Great list..

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by w600

Alexander.. Hard for me to consider a gaming card a rookie card. I prefer 1914 Fatima/Cracker Jack

Anson...1987 N172 included

Walter Johnson and Tris Speaker... I get it if you want to consider Postcards rookie's I dont.. for me 1909 Ramly/T206 and 1909 T206/Caramel for Speaker.

Christy Matthewson.. 1903 W600 Type 2.. It actually predated Breisch by 6 months.

Wagner.. 1897 Reccius was a promo card.. Still a controversial card.. I respect the Wagner 1902 W600 as Rookie..

Cy Young.. 1890 Ryder Cabinet, 1891-92 Ryder in SCP auction now (first uniform), 1893 Pifer was actually released before Just so. They used Pifer photo for Just so.

Team Cards I also don't count..They were promo for players many times the player didn't even start with the team that year but had a picture in uniform.

Great list..

Anson has many cards prior to his 1888 Old Judge(he was not in the 1887 issue ). The earliest I know of is the 1872 Philadelphia NA composite cabinet.The NA was a major league. He also appears in plenty of Chicago cabinets that predate his Old Judge.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by w600

Alexander.. Hard for me to consider a gaming card a rookie card. I prefer 1914 Fatima/Cracker Jack

Anson...1987 N172 included

Walter Johnson and Tris Speaker... I get it if you want to consider Postcards rookie's I dont.. for me 1909 Ramly/T206 and 1909 T206/Caramel for Speaker.

Christy Matthewson.. 1903 W600 Type 2.. It actually predated Breisch by 6 months.

Wagner.. 1897 Reccius was a promo card.. Still a controversial card.. I respect the Wagner 1902 W600 as Rookie..

Cy Young.. 1890 Ryder Cabinet, 1891-92 Ryder in SCP auction now (first uniform), 1893 Pifer was actually released before Just so. They used Pifer photo for Just so.

Team Cards I also don't count..They were promo for players many times the player didn't even start with the team that year but had a picture in uniform.

Great list..

If studio cabinets are included, wouldn't Anson's rookie card be his 1874 Suddards and Fennemore studio cabinet? Here's a link to the card. https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...umbnail-071515

[h2oya311]

Here's my list for Anson:

> 1869 Marshalltown Team Cabinet Photo
> 1869 Notre Dame Team CDV
> 1871 Rockford Forest City's Team Cabinet
> 1872 CDV/Trade Card
> 1872 Philadelphia NA Composite Cabinet
> 1874 Suddard's and Fennemore Cabinet (same images as 1874 Harper's Woodcut)
> 1874 Harper's Weekly Woodcut
> 1879 Robinson Chicago Team Cabinet
> 1886 Lorillard's Chicago Team Cabinet
> 1887 Buchner GC
> 1887-88 Allen & Ginter
> 1888 Old Judge

I'll be setting up a link to all HOFers and the earliest images for each. I'm pretty sure I have an image for each of the items listed above, but if not, I apologize in advance.

[oldjudge]

Derek: also 1882 Chicago Photographic Studio team cabinet. I have an image if you need it. Your list confirms that the 1872 cards are his rookies. The previous ones were not major league appearances.

[aaroncc]

There is a couple different Stevens Cabinets 88-89 I believe.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Here's my list for Anson:

> 1869 Marshalltown Team Cabinet Photo
> 1869 Notre Dame Team CDV
> 1871 Rockford Forest City's Team Cabinet
> 1872 CDV/Trade Card
> 1872 Philadelphia NA Composite Cabinet
> 1874 Suddard's and Fennemore Cabinet (same images as 1874 Harper's Woodcut)
> 1874 Harper's Weekly Woodcut
> 1879 Robinson Chicago Team Cabinet
> 1886 Lorillard's Chicago Team Cabinet
> 1887 Buchner GC
> 1887-88 Allen & Ginter
> 1888 Old Judge

I'll be setting up a link to all HOFers and the earliest images for each. I'm pretty sure I have an image for each of the items listed above, but if not, I apologize in advance.

I've never seen the 1869 Notre Dame Cdv, nor for that matter ever heard of it. Does anybody have an image?

Is the 1872 Cdv/Trade Card the same image as the 1872 Philadelphia Composite Cabinet? I've seen the Trade Card. If it is not the same image, does anybody have an image of the 1872 Philadelphia composite?

There is an 1874 Philadelphia cabinet, as well as 1876 and 1878 Chicago cabinets.

[barrysloate]

While the 1874 Philadelphia cabinet is Anson's first solo appearance on a photographic card, his first appearance as a professional is on the 1871 Forest Citys of Rockford CdV. Forest Citys was an inaugural team in the National Association, baseball's first professional league.

The problem is we have no clear definition of what a rookie card is.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

I've never seen the 1869 Notre Dame Cdv, nor for that matter ever heard of it. Does anybody have an image?

Is the 1872 Cdv/Trade Card the same image as the 1872 Philadelphia Composite Cabinet? I've seen the Trade Card. If it is not the same image, does anybody have an image of the 1872 Philadelphia composite?

There is an 1874 Philadelphia cabinet, as well as 1876 and 1878 Chicago cabinets.

I believe the image of the 1869 Notre Dame CDV was on the following website, which now appears to be dead:

https://capanson.com/index.html

Anyone know how to retrieve old information/photos off defunct websites? Anyone know the previous host/owner of that website?

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

I believe the image of the 1869 Notre Dame CDV was on the following website, which now appears to be dead:

https://capanson.com/index.html

Anyone know how to retrieve old information/photos off defunct websites? Anyone know the previous host/owner of that website?

Thanks for trying to locate it Derek. I'm very curious to see it.

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Anyone know how to retrieve old information/photos off defunct websites? Anyone know the previous host/owner of that website?

Archive.org wayback machine. No 1869 photo though. Link below has some cool pics though.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080517...all_cards.html

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by Dewey

Archive.org wayback machine. No 1869 photo though. Link below has some cool pics though.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080517...all_cards.html

Very cool! Sad to see that the Notre Dame CDV wasn’t on there. Just remembered that I had asked some questions before about Anson a few years back. Here’s an old thread. Looks like Brad W. (a member) was the owner of that site:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=208367

I reached out to him to see if he knows of the Notre Dame CDV I have listed.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by w600

Alexander.. Hard for me to consider a gaming card a rookie card. I prefer 1914 Fatima/Cracker Jack

Anson...1987 N172 included

Walter Johnson and Tris Speaker... I get it if you want to consider Postcards rookie's I dont.. for me 1909 Ramly/T206 and 1909 T206/Caramel for Speaker.

Christy Matthewson.. 1903 W600 Type 2.. It actually predated Breisch by 6 months.

Wagner.. 1897 Reccius was a promo card.. Still a controversial card.. I respect the Wagner 1902 W600 as Rookie..

Cy Young.. 1890 Ryder Cabinet, 1891-92 Ryder in SCP auction now (first uniform), 1893 Pifer was actually released before Just so. They used Pifer photo for Just so.

Team Cards I also don't count..They were promo for players many times the player didn't even start with the team that year but had a picture in uniform.

Great list..

You consider a W600 a rookie in the case of Wagner, but a postcard isn't a rookie in the case of Wajo? Other than your handle being W600, what logical reason can you give why a W600 can be a rookie, but a postcard cannot? I am totally fine with considering a W600 a rookie card because I disagree with the sentiment that the card must come in packs or be a certain size to be considered a "card." But it seems like a strange position to take when you say that an oversized premium is a "card" for purposes of assigning a player's rookie, but a postcard is not.

[packs]

In the case of Walter though isn't the postcard in question a minor league issue?

[orly57]

Originally Posted by packs

In the case of Walter though isn't the postcard in question a minor league issue?

Yes and no. The "Weiser Wonder" is a minor league PC, but the 1908 Rose is not. The Rose pre-dates the Ramly.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by orly57

Yes and no. The "Weiser Wonder" is a minor league PC, but the 1908 Rose is not. The Rose pre-dates the Ramly.

Orlando - the "Weiser Wonder" postcard that you reference was actually issued in 1910. The original real photo postcard (without title) that is pictured below was issued in 1907, before he was known by that nickname.

[Bicem]

I know you've heard it from me before but absolutely incredible postcard.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Bicem

I know you've heard it from me before but absolutely incredible postcard.

Thanks Jeff. Honestly, that means a lot coming from you.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Orlando - the "Weiser Wonder" postcard that you reference was actually issued in 1910. The original real photo postcard (without title) that is pictured below was issued in 1907, before he was known by that nickname.

I looked for yours in google, but couldn't find it.

[w600]

Originally Posted by orly57

You consider a W600 a rookie in the case of Wagner, but a postcard isn't a rookie in the case of Wajo? Other than your handle being W600, what logical reason can you give why a W600 can be a rookie, but a postcard cannot? I am totally fine with considering a W600 a rookie card because I disagree with the sentiment that the card must come in packs or be a certain size to be considered a "card." But it seems like a strange position to take when you say that an oversized premium is a "card" for purposes of assigning a player's rookie, but a postcard is not.

W600 was issued as cards for 9 years. Nothing different than any other card company. The sets and years were defined. They were just oversized.Postcards to me are similar to postcards now. People can take pictures with there family and send letters or greetings. If Mike trout had a postcard 1909 or a page in a magazine in those years, they are not "ROOKIE CARDS"...

Cabinet Cards are a bit different. W600 are not Cabinets. Cabinet Card is similar to how cards are made now. Photo with cardboard back. Although, they have defined sets and stature. Cabinet Cards are loose ends a bit. But if the year in the Cabinet Card matches the rookie year to me its his Rookie Card.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by w600

W600 was issued as cards for 9 years. Nothing different than any other card company. The sets and years were defined. They were just oversized.Postcards to me are similar to postcards now. People can take pictures with there family and send letters or greetings. If Mike trout had a postcard 1909 or a page in a magazine in those years, they are not "ROOKIE CARDS"...

Cabinet Cards are a bit different. W600 are not Cabinets. Cabinet Card is similar to how cards are made now. Photo with cardboard back. Although, they have defined sets and stature. Cabinet Cards are loose ends a bit. But if the year in the Cabinet Card matches the rookie year to me its his Rookie Card.

It sounds to me like you should probably brush up a bit on post cards before making such sweeping commentary. I think you are confusing RPPC's (real photo postcards) with postcards that absolutely have defined sets and years and are catalogued. Like a W600 is a defined set in a catalog, so is the Rose Co (PC760), Novelty Cutlery (pc805) etc. Real photo postcards, on the other hand, were pics taken by individuals and put onto cardboard. Those do not have defined sets or years. But there is a HUGE difference between the two. I think certain RPPCs are great, but I too am a bit bothered by the fact that they aren't from defined sets or years. I don't own any largely for that reason (though I wouldn't mind a 1915 Ruth RPPC too much). But I do own quite a few PCs from legit catalogued sets. The Rose Wajo is most certainly part of a defined set from defined years. And if mike trout had a postcard from 1909, it would definitely be considered a PRE PRE PRE rookie.

[Bicem]

RPPC's can also be from well defined sets like Bregstone, Underwood & Underwood, Rotograph, Cleveland Souvenir Shop etc.

So really two types, private one-off's like Orlando describes above and ones mass produced for sets and promotional reasons.

[oldjudge]

Hi Corey! I have the 1872 Wright and Gould trade card of Philadelphia. That was the composite I was referring to.

[Baseball Rarities]

IMHO, Rose Co. postcards were definitely meant to have been collected like baseball cards at the time. If not, I do not think that the set would have included so many subjects. Production began during the summer of 1908 and originally included 12 members for each of the 16 teams, for a total of 192 different players. They were not only offered individually by retailers, but also in team sets of 12. At the time of production, this was one of the largest and most comprehensive "sets" ever made.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Hi Corey! I have the 1872 Wright and Gould trade card of Philadelphia. That was the composite I was referring to.

Thanks. That though is the one I am aware of. What then is the second 1872 team card of Anson referred to?