Opinions on the "GOAT" (Boxing)

[Bored5000]

Guys who were big punchers were made to order for Ali. No heavyweight in boxing history had a better chin than Ali did.

George Foreman was Tyson before there was Tyson from an intimidation and huge punching standpoint. Foreman 40-0 with 37 knockouts and seven years younger than Ali in the "Rumble in the Jungle." George Foreman's biggest punches could not take out Ali, but Tyson would?

Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield were guys who were not terrified by Tyson, and stood up to him. Ali was not intimidated by Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier and George Foreman; he would not be intimidated by Tyson, either.

[Dpeck100]

I always find it odd at how quickly people can say someone from the 30's was better than someone from the 70's or 80's etc. If you just look at images of athletes that span this time frame you rarely see athletes with physical attributes that compare to more modern day athletes. Whether that is from dietary changes, more vigorous exercise routines, enhanced training regimens, performance enhancing drugs, better lifestyle choices or just human evolution it is what it is.



It is hard for me to conceptually agree that even though they were participating in the same sport it is the same. While Tyson's entire career may leave him coming up short for the top five or top ten, I just don't see how he doesn't garner more respect in the discussion from his time in his prime. As an amateur he was flat out scary, he went on to be the youngest heavyweight champion and left a path of destruction in his wake. From a physical standpoint Tyson was a beast and a monster in the gym. He had the killer instinct that so many humans simply don't posses. He was at a constant disadvantage as he battled drug problems and still flattened opponents. He was a global superstar and had to deal with the pressure of the press and as his star rose so did the purses in boxing and he was now entrenched with the pressure of dealing with so much income.



It just seems like a really tough debate that isn't apples to apples. Just a few weeks ago Francis Ngannou knocked out Alistar Overeem with one punch. He came over to the UFC from the boxing world and has shattered the record for punching power. How can some one compare a boxer from the 50's who had big punching power yet it was no where close to as powerful? Tyson may have fought some bums or journeymen fighters but these weren't just victories but shocking knockouts. You were stepping in the ring with a great white shark and the outcome was that ferocious. When I watch the clips from his prime commentators were skeptical early on but were quick to realize he was special.



Obviously all of these statements in some form have been bounced around in the debate and long time boxing enthusiasts have heard them and have some counter punch as to why they don't matter so no minds will be changed but those are my beliefs.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

That's why Tyson has a following -- he didn't just beat his tomato cans, he demolished them. That makes for great TV but it doesn't mean you're a great boxer. He was a caged animal and when he came up against someone with true skill his frustration took over and he reacted that way.

I understand why people love going to youtube and watching Tyson highlights. People also love watching Kimbo Slice highlights. Doesn't mean they're great boxers.

Arthur

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I always find it odd at how quickly people can say someone from the 30's was better than someone from the 70's or 80's etc. If you just look at images of athletes that span this time frame you rarely see athletes with physical attributes that compare to more modern day athletes. Whether that is from dietary changes, more vigorous exercise routines, enhanced training regimens, performance enhancing drugs, better lifestyle choices or just human evolution it is what it is.

It is hard for me to conceptually agree that even though they were participating in the same sport it is the same. While Tyson's entire career may leave him coming up short for the top five or top ten, I just don't see how he doesn't garner more respect in the discussion from his time in his prime.

I usually try to look at these all-time great discussions in the context of what the competition was like in that era and the level of dominance. The mid to late 1980s was one of the weakest eras ever for heavyweights. So many of the top fighters from that era either lacked heart, were perpetually out of shape or had drug problems.

But the reason Tyson does not get respect when compared to the all-time great heavyweights is because his resume is so thin when compared to the top heavyweights of all-time. Tyson was absolutely breathtaking to watch and a phenomenon in the 1980s, but he lost convincingly when matched against guys who were not intimidated.

One of the other reasons Tyson does not get much respect in the all-time rankings is that he was so weak mentally and folded up his tent when he could not simply intimidate an opponent into quitting before a fight even began.

[Dpeck100]

I have never commented on the greatest heavyweight of all time in this thread prior to yesterday and I don't recall ever commenting prior in any other thread.

Yes I do think Tyson's appearance is far supperior and I realize that cut muscles isn't the deciding factor in a fight.

I do think it says a lot about his conditioning.

There are plenty of great boxers in MMA and if that was their focus could be very competitive in boxing.

It's funny I am having some work done at my condo and I have on a Tyson tshirt and had him on my big screen and one of the guys asked if I boxed. Said no but love Tyson and think he doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. His comment was I think he was the best.

[D. Bergin]

Like Adam, I'd rank Tyson a Top 20 Heavyweight (maybe somewhere in the middle of the pack if I really had to think about it).

That said, I understand why Tyson is considered so collectible. He has that "it" or "wow" factor, a lot of fighters we might consider superior, don't have.

He also is a bit of an icon in his own right, and even with the many horrible things he might have done in his personal life (and in the ring), he still comes across as likable and accessible to many.

He's an incredibly self-aware guy to, which is uncommon in many high profile celebrities, athletes and politicians.

[Dpeck100]

It is definitely nice to see his stuff more sought after this point.

In 2010 what gave me the idea to look for his cards was watching his ESPN DVD The Best of Mike Tyson.

I just was blown away at what a wrecking machine he was. Boxers for good reason were legit scared to fight the guy.

I think social media is why he stuff has become more collected. Youtube has done wonders for his appeal.

He may not rank high with boxing enthusiasts but for many fans he was the pinnacle of boxing during their lifetime and that probably influences their opinion a great deal. I fall into this category.

[Arazi4442]

Tyson was a completely different fighter after the death of Cus D'Amato. I think that's one of the reasons it's so difficult to rank him all-time. Early in his career he was a knockout machine, to the point that many heavyweights fought him but wouldn't engage him for a second, even in title fights. (Similar to Foreman before the Ali fight) Watch the Mitch Green fight or "Bonecrusher" Smith. Those guys were legitimate heavyweights in the late 80s and early 90s and wanted no part of a young Tyson.

I prefer to remember that fighter and would absolutely put him in my top 5 all-time heavyweight fighters. After Cus' death, he lost a lot of discipline and started getting into all kinds of trouble outside the ring. That's the Tyson most detractors remember and pretty much ruined his legacy, IMO.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I just was blown away at what a wrecking machine he was. Boxers for good reason were legit scared to fight the guy.

David, have you read Tyson's autobiography from 4-5 years ago? It is an amazing read; he is brutally honest and reflective. One of the anecdotes he tells in the book is a story of walking down the street a few years ago and hearing a young girl tell her father, "Hey, there's Mike Tyson, the actor from 'The Hangover.'" It was at that moment that it dawned on Tyson that an entire generation does not have any idea that he was once the undisputed heavyweight champion.

Tyson talks about every major fight he had and the back story behind each fight. Tyson talked about the pre-fight staredown in the middle of the ring before a fight and that if a guy did not look him in the eye, Tyson knew the guy was scared. One guy Tyson mentions in particular as being scared was Frank Bruno, who Tyson said drew a cross on his chest with his finger numerous times before their first fight.

If I am not mistake, don't you work as a financial adviser? If so, you will probably appreciate this story. Tyson talked about pissing away hundreds of millions of dollars and having a forensic accountant examine his finances. One of the things the accountant found was a long forgotten IRA that Cus D'Amato had set up for Tyson shortly before D'Amato died.

The IRA had grown to $250,000 by the time Tyson's accountant found it. Upon being informed that D'Amato had set up this IRA for him, Tyson sat and cried because D'Amato was the only guy who wasn't trying to rip him off financially.

Tyson is brutally honest in the book when talking about his low self-esteem, depression, self-hatred.