NEED HELP with this WASHINGTON SENATORS TICKET STUB 1913-1920 but what year ?

[Scott Garner]

David,
I mean no disrespect, but especially with rainouts, it's been my experience that game numbers don't actually tell the story.
Since this game 2 ticket is a rain check, it could be used for any future game in the season if it was, in fact, rained out. The day that the ticket was used, the Senators played Boston and likely lost 8-3 as noted by the patron. Nothing that I see on the ticket nails down the year as 1913 BTW. For this reason, I did not use the game number 2 as an absolute guide in my assessment and I agree in that this assumes that the game was completed as a game of record. It could be from any year between 1913-1919 according to our good friend Dan Busby's book on Washington Senators tickets.

[megalimey]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

David,
I mean no disrespect, but especially with rainouts, it's been my experience that game numbers don't actually tell the story.
Since this game 2 ticket is a rain check, it could be used for any future game in the season if it was, in fact, rained out. The day that the ticket was used, the Senators played Boston and likely lost 8-3 as noted by the patron. Nothing that I see on the ticket nails down the year as 1913 BTW. For this reason, I did not use the game number 2 as an absolute guide in my assessment and I agree in that this assumes that the game was completed as a game of record. It could be from any year between 1913-1919 according to our good friend Dan Busby's book on Washington Senators tickets.

thats not really how Rainouts work
the ticket stub would have to be exchanged at the ticket office for any future
game , and not just presented at the turnstile , as how would the ticket collector know which game was rained also once torn you could not use that
stub to gain reentry into the park , if so it could be handed back through the fence a hundred times to all the neighborhood kids ,
I think the writing was added at later date based on looking at retro games played ,

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by megalimey

thats not really how Rainouts work
the ticket stub would have to be exchanged at the ticket office for any future
game , and not just presented at the turnstile , as how would the ticket collector know which game was rained also once torn you could not use that
stub to gain reentry into the park , if so it could be handed back through the fence a hundred times to all the neighborhood kids ,
I think the writing was added at later date based on looking at retro games played ,

Although that's the way that rainouts are dealt with today,
I would like you to consider the fact that may not have been the way that they were handled prior to WWII.
In my own personal collection I have several early vintage undated tickets that have old vintage fountain pen inscriptions that indicate that a game was played on a different date than the game number indicated on the front of the ticket.
I truly believe that some teams operated on such slim financial margins in the early part of the 20th century that a second ticket would not be issued in order to save money. I know that the Brooklyn Dodgers did this, and I suspect others did as well FWIW.

This is the challenging issue with undated vintage tickets. I really don't personally believe that there were any absolutes IMHO. Just my 2 cents.

[megalimey]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Although that's the way that rainouts are dealt with today,
I would like you to consider the fact that may not have been the way that they were handled prior to WWII.
In my own personal collection I have several early vintage undated tickets that have old vintage fountain pen inscriptions that indicate that a game was played on a different date than the game number indicated on the front of the ticket.
I truly believe that some teams operated on such slim financial margins in the early part of the 20th century that a second ticket would not be issued in order to save money. I know that the Brooklyn Dodgers did this, and I suspect others did as well FWIW.

This is the challenging issue with undated vintage tickets. I really don't personally believe that there were any absolutes IMHO. Just my 2 cents.

unfortunately hand written dates have been fabricated for over 30-40 years
especially when people realized some of the prices they were getting
you ever noticed the games are all significant ??
I still find it hard to accept some one just went to the turnstile with a torn rain check stub , and were allowed admission , imagine the chaos in say Home game 67 where they had been over prior 12 rain-outs and hundred of people showed with all different game numbers on their torn tickets stubs , not even an IBM computer would have been able to sort out that , let alone a underpaid ticket collector how would he know , he would have to get a print out of all the games and doing this with all the people in line , just looking at the logistical nightmare that would cause , Most vintage tickets state "ticket must be exchanged for a future game subject to availability
and all AL and NL teams abide by the same rules due to the Revenue sharing back in the day , and knowing how many paid admission would determine pay out to visiting team. and total paid attendance .
I look it from the logistical aspect and not the emotional right or wrong

[Scott Garner]

Hi David,
Last reply on this & then I'm out.
The rain out scenario that I am referring to is a game that wasn't played at all.
This would create an unused ticket, not a ticket that was torn.

As far as every undated ticket with writing on it being to a historic game, I would have to say that I actually have not found that to be the case at all. Most examples that I have seen in my 45 years of collecting vintage baseball tickets have actually been to meaningless games...

[Hankphenom]

Somebody should write a ticket book, assuming there isn't one. I remember a dealer at the old Ft. Washington shows who was THE ticket guy, might even have called himself the ticket man. Can't remember his name, unfortunately he died many years ago.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Somebody should write a ticket book, assuming there isn't one. I remember a dealer at the old Ft. Washington shows who was THE ticket guy, might even have called himself the ticket man. Can't remember his name, unfortunately he died many years ago.

Hank,
Dan Busby, a good friend, who is another long-time collector of baseball tickets is actually working on an excellent reference book on Washington Senators tickets that should be getting close to completion. He sent me a draft to look over about a year ago.