Larry Doyle and the HOF

[packs]

I know WAR and other advanced stats are supposed to eliminate the discussions of "in their day" but that discussion is no more apt than when discussing Doyle. Can anyone name one NL second baseman who had a better career than Larry Doyle at the time that his career was complete? I don't think you can. So while Doyle might have stats comparable to Travis Jackson, no one had stats comparable to Doyle while he was on the field. That says something to me.

[OldOriole]

Originally Posted by packs

I know WAR and other advanced stats are supposed to eliminate the discussions of "in their day" but that discussion is no more apt than when discussing Doyle. Can anyone name one NL second baseman who had a better career than Larry Doyle at the time that his career was complete? I don't think you can. So while Doyle might have stats comparable to Travis Jackson, no one had stats comparable to Doyle while he was on the field. That says something to me.

Sure...in the AL. Nap Lajoie and Eddie Collins both had careers that overlapped the majority of Doyle's. While Doyle had a very nice career, his numbers were not on the same level as these two HOFers. Their stats were more than comparable to Doyle's, they were superior. I still think Doyle was a heck of a ballplayer though.

Your point about the NL is a good one. I'm not sure there was anyone as good as him at 2B in the NL at the time he played. However, I think there were some who played 2B in the NL before his time that were as good as Doyle. This include Bid McPhee, Hardy Richardson, and Bobby Lowe.

[packs]

Curious as to what metric you're using for Bobby Lowe being better than Larry Doyle. Lowe never led a single offensive category int he leagues he played in. His WAR is also half of Doyle's. I'm also not seeing Hardy Richardson being better than Doyle either. Doyle played more than three times as many games at second base than Richardson did.

Bid McPhee would be the closest but he spent 8 season in the American Association and his stats are a combination of a career spent in 2 leagues. It has always irked me that McPhee was able to get inducted but Stovey has not been able to, with the chief knock on Stovey being that he played in the AA.

[SteveMitchell]

Originally Posted by packs

I know WAR and other advanced stats are supposed to eliminate the discussions of "in their day" but that discussion is no more apt than when discussing Doyle. Can anyone name one NL second baseman who had a better career than Larry Doyle at the time that his career was complete? I don't think you can. So while Doyle might have stats comparable to Travis Jackson, no one had stats comparable to Doyle while he was on the field. That says something to me.

and

I've always thought he was a HOFer. He was the best second basemen in his league for pretty much his entire career. When you're the best player at your position for your generation, I don't see why that wouldn't merit a HOF induction.

"Packs" has said it very well. Modifying the title of Lawrence Ritter's classic a little: Larry Doyle was the glory of his time at second base! [in the National League]