OT: Pirates avenge Harvey Haddix game

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by familytoad

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=243936



Getting close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and dancing.
Perfect games and no hitters only count in AL after 1973.

Replays showed an infield single count as an out, and at least one batter who should have walked but was called strike 3 during the perfect game bid.
Neither batters were pitchers but I presume that since Hill took the hill against the *inferior* NL that it just doesn't matter.

And presumably none of the perfect games or no-hitters prior to 1973 count.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

And presumably none of the perfect games or no-hitters prior to 1973 count.

no they count the same as NL....after 1973 the AL no hitter is far superior to the NL no hitter.....plus all of these 'almost no hitters' where we get constant updates of a 6 inning 'gem' by Mark Leiter and the likes are getting annoying . In the age of pitch counts and specialization its even more skewed..

its like 19 out of last 21 no hitters are in NL parks..or something close to that..its not even close...

[Jcfowler6]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

no they count the same as NL....after 1973 the AL no hitter is far superior to the NL no hitter.....plus all of these 'almost no hitters' where we get constant updates of a 6 inning 'gem' by Mark Leiter and the likes are getting annoying . In the age of pitch counts and specialization its even more skewed..

its like 19 out of last 21 no hitters are in NL parks..or something close to that..its not even close...

Why not start your own thread about NL vs AL and let those that loved the game love it?


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[Mark]

Originally Posted by Jcfowler6

Why not start your own thread about NL vs AL and let those that loved the game love it?


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Good point, Jon. It was a wonderful contest. A no hitter is certainly a rarity in Pittsburgh--how many have there been? I think that there have been 5 since 1901. I'm glad that you were there. A perfect game would have been a memory for a lifetime--in fact, a near perfect game like that one would be hard to forget.

[Jcfowler6]

Originally Posted by Mark

Good point, Jon. It was a wonderful contest. A no hitter is certainly a rarity in Pittsburgh--how many have there been? 3? I'm glad that you were there. A perfect game would have been a memory for a lifetime--in fact, a near perfect game like that one would be hard to forget.

I love baseball and the Bucs. Just want to enjoy it. I have no problem with debates but this thread isn't for that.

It was a very fun game.


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[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

no they count the same as NL....after 1973 the AL no hitter is far superior to the NL no hitter.....plus all of these 'almost no hitters' where we get constant updates of a 6 inning 'gem' by Mark Leiter and the likes are getting annoying . In the age of pitch counts and specialization its even more skewed..

its like 19 out of last 21 no hitters are in NL parks..or something close to that..its not even close...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...all_no-hitters

According to wiki, and assuming I counted correctly, there have been 113 no hitters since 1973.
AL - 51
NL - 55
Interleague - 7

Its really only been the last 5 seasons that the NL has dominated the no-hitter scene. From 1973 thru 2012 there were more slightly more AL no-hitters.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...all_no-hitters

According to wiki, and assuming I counted correctly, there have been 113 no hitters since 1973.
AL - 51
NL - 55
Interleague - 7

Its really only been the last 5 seasons that the NL has dominated the no-hitter scene. From 1973 thru 2012 there were more slightly more AL no-hitters.

5 years is an eternity in terms of changes. Ask Bonds and Mcgwire and when ground rule doubles used to be home runs i believe.

You are correct the NL has dominated the no hitter scene. Thats why they arent' worth the same as AL. 19 of the last 21 no hitters in NL parks? Plus its about a 7-1 ratio in terms of 7 inning almost no hitters Talking about 1975 is the same thing as talking about 1933 right now. Those are both ancient history.

I've been talking about this for awhile and the pace keeps corroborated what I have been saying. Like i been saying, lets see two AL no hitters occur back to back and you wont hear anything else from me on this subject.

[darwinbulldog]

I'll do better. I have a PSA 2 1955 Topps Clemente that says at least 2 of the next 5 no-hitters will be in the AL. Do you have anything comparable to put up?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I'll do better. I have a PSA 2 1955 Topps Clemente that says at least 2 of the next 5 no-hitters will be in the AL. Do you have anything comparable to put up?

Haha.that bascially means that putting your money where your mouth means 40% of the next 5 no hitters will be in the AL....thats not a strong statement in saying that NL /AL no hitters are basically the same......If you want to go since 1973 people are saying its even basically. I was giving NL no hitters .9 of the value of AL no hitters.

I bascically tired of the almost no hitter for NL contests. Rich Hill has 2 of them in the past year. Marlins had a no hitter last game of the year by the great Henderson Alverez not long ago..and Edison Volquez this year. Its getting pretty ridiculous..

Id rather give up 1 hit then walk 4 guys with no hits..but thats another issue..

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Haha.that bascially means that putting your money where your mouth means 40% of the next 5 no hitters will be in the AL....thats not a strong statement in saying that NL /AL no hitters are basically the same......If you want to go since 1973 people are saying its even basically. I was giving NL no hitters .9 of the value of AL no hitters.

I bascically tired of the almost no hitter for NL contests. Rich Hill has 2 of them in the past year. Marlins had a no hitter last game of the year by the great Henderson Alverez not long ago..and Edison Volquez this year. Its getting pretty ridiculous..

Id rather give up 1 hit then walk 4 guys with no hits..but thats another issue..

Rob's right. What you said is "far superior" not "10% better" or anything like that, and I'm perfectly happy to win the wager if the AL gives us 60% or 80% or 100% of the next 5 no-hitters, but I thought given that you were making the case that about 90% of no hitters now come from the NL that you'd have been delighted with the terms of my offer. It appears that I was wrong. No problem. If anyone else is interested though, you know where to find me. Offer stands.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

5 years is an eternity in terms of changes. Ask Bonds and Mcgwire and when ground rule doubles used to be home runs i believe.

You are correct the NL has dominated the no hitter scene. Thats why they arent' worth the same as AL. 19 of the last 21 no hitters in NL parks? Plus its about a 7-1 ratio in terms of 7 inning almost no hitters Talking about 1975 is the same thing as talking about 1933 right now. Those are both ancient history.

I've been talking about this for awhile and the pace keeps corroborated what I have been saying. Like i been saying, lets see two AL no hitters occur back to back and you wont hear anything else from me on this subject.

You were the one that brought up 1973 and you have been proven wrong. Now if you want to amend your argument and say NL no hitters since 2012 don't count as much...

[packs]

What does worth more even mean? What is it you want to see happen? Should an AL pitcher get 2 wins, 2 complete games, and 2 shut outs for every no hitter? And should an NL pitcher have to pitch 2 no hitters to be credited with one? I just can't understand what the argument is.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

What does worth more even mean? What is it you want to see happen? Should an AL pitcher get 2 wins, 2 complete games, and 2 shut outs for every no hitter? And should an NL pitcher have to pitch 2 no hitters to be credited with one? I just can't understand what the argument is.

I stated that an NL no hitter should be worth more than a AL no hitter and not given equal praise. All i hear about is how they are the same but its clear now that they arent...19 of of last 21 or so no hitters being in the NL isnt a trend anymore... Since i made my first post about this on net54 there have been 3 or 4 NL no hitters and zero AL ones, that doesnt exactly refute my argument.


If it gets to 40 of 44 ..we are supposed to throw a parade of the NL no hitter? When will it be unreasonable? Never?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by rats60

You were the one that brought up 1973 and you have been proven wrong. Now if you want to amend your argument and say NL no hitters since 2012 don't count as much...

How was i proven wrong? There have been more NL no hitter than AL hitters..and even more so now. I didnt say NL no hitters shouldnt count...i said they are worth .9 as much and the stats show now that I may be giving the AL too much credit.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

no they count the same as NL....after 1973 the AL no hitter is far superior to the NL no hitter.....

Sure, but by the same rationale, after 1973 the AL no-hitter is far superior to the pre-1973 no-hitter -- unless you're arguing that it's something other than the inclusion of a DH that makes a no-hitter really count, in which case I guess I missed your point but would love to know what it is.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

after 1973 the AL no hitter is far superior to the NL no hitter

if you'd said 2013 and not 1973, there'd be no argument. But you wrote 1973, so it can be debated whether or not 55-51 is "far superior"

[Mark]

If feel almost like I'm feeding a troll now, but here goes: Perfect games are more difficult, and thus more significant, than no - hitters. Now, if I am not mistaken, 4 of the last 6 perfect games were thrown against American League teams. If we take the principle that the league with the most no-hitters is the weaker league, and if we apply that principle to perfect games, then we must conclude that the American League fields much weaker teams (by a ratio of 3:2) than does the senior circuit--at least over the last decade. QED

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Mark

If feel almost like I'm feeding a troll now, but here goes: Perfect games are more difficult, and thus more significant, than no - hitters. Now, if I am not mistaken, 4 of the last 6 perfect games were thrown against American League teams. If we take the principle that the league with the most no-hitters is the weaker league, and if we apply that principle to perfect games, then we must conclude that the American League fields much weaker teams (by a ratio of 3:2) than does the senior circuit--at least over the last decade. QED

Interesting ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._perfect_games

Since 1973 there have been 14 perfect games, 9 of which were in AL stadiums (and 7 of the last 10!).

Fun tidbit .... Addie Joss needed just 74 pitches to throw his 1908 perfect game vs CHW!

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Fun tidbit .... Addie Joss needed just 74 pitches to throw his 1908 perfect game vs CHW!

Joss Schmoss. You conveniently failed to mention that Big Ed Walsh was a career .194 hitter.