Post national

[the-illini]

I guess don't go to the National with the intent of buying cards then?

I see plenty of exorbitant prices on Ebay every day as well.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are of course expenses in setting up at a card show, but at the same time a dealer doesn't have to give x percent to ebay/paypal when making an in person sale. So I am not seeing this as a justification for charging exorbitant prices. And in any event, reducing prices might lead to higher profits if you sell more cards.

To me it's an insane situation when guys like Steve and Jesse who are willing to pay strong prices for cards come home literally with nothing because the prices were so ridiculous.

[packs]

I still don't understand the philosophy that if you buy a card in person at a show you should expect to pay more than market value. Why, exactly? Because a guy shelled out money to rent a table? He didn't do it for his health. Let him sell his cards to pay for his table. Or, as is usually the custom, out price any buyers and walk away without selling anything.

I feel the same way when I try to negotiate a deal anywhere. Some guy will always say, "well, i have X into it". I don't care what you have into it. What you paid for something isn't what dictates a sale price.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I still don't understand the philosophy that if you buy a card in person at a show you should expect to pay more than market value. Why, exactly? Because a guy shelled out money to rent a table? He didn't do it for his health. Let him sell his cards to pay for his table. Or, as is usually the custom, out price any buyers and walk away without selling anything.

I feel the same way when I try to negotiate a deal anywhere. Some guy will always say, "well, i have X into it". I don't care what you have into it. What you paid for something isn't what dictates a sale price.

Agreed. It sounds nice but it's illogical.

[the-illini]

So you want dealers to pay market, set up at a card show, and sell at market?

That's a good business model.

Originally Posted by packs

I still don't understand the philosophy that if you buy a card in person at a show you should expect to pay more than market value. Why, exactly? Because a guy shelled out money to rent a table? He didn't do it for his health. Let him sell his cards to pay for his table. Or, as is usually the custom, out price any buyers and walk away without selling anything.

I feel the same way when I try to negotiate a deal anywhere. Some guy will always say, "well, i have X into it". I don't care what you have into it. What you paid for something isn't what dictates a sale price.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by the-illini

So you want dealers to pay market, set up at a card show, and sell at market?

That's a good business model.

A better one than not selling.

[the-illini]

Not really. I would rather still own the card than sell at or below cost.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A better one than not selling.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Not really. I would rather still own the card than sell at or below cost.

That's fine and your choice, but at the same time I think it's irrational to expect me to pay you more than a card is worth because it cost you money to set up.

[the-illini]

And I think its irrational for you to to be mad I won't sell at Beckett/VCP or whatever because I want something back from my time and money outlay.

Agree to disagree - no hard feelings.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's fine and your choice, but at the same time I think it's irrational to expect me to pay you more than a card is worth because it cost you money to set up.

[ullmandds]

The dynamics and psychology of buying and selling sure have changed!

I should pay more because I can hold a card in my hand prior to purchase?

I should pay more for a card because said seller has fees(which I'd assume can be written off as business expenses)associated with doing said business?

I as an attendant of any national usually have fees associated with my being there as well...transportation...hotel...etc.

The national is fun...its social...and it's cool to see buttloads of impressive cards and memorabilia...BUT...I stand my my overly negative comment that many cards are dramatically overpriced.

[packs]

If a dealer is paying market price for his cards then that dealer isn't a very good dealer and he still has no business at a show.

[conor912]

Why do people continue to equate VCP to "what something is worth". VCP is an average. "What something is worth" is a fluid, often irrational (for both buyers AND sellers) figure taking into account many more factors than an average. Time, place, mood, attitude, all the way down to a headache or indigestion may sway what I think something is worth at any given moment.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by the-illini

So you want dealers to pay market, set up at a card show, and sell at market?

That's a good business model.

If dealers are paying market, then they aren't dealers they are collectors. Retail stores don't buy their stock from Wal-Mart and expect to sell it in their store. If they want to be a dealer, they need to develop wholesale markets. Otherwise, be prepared to operate on really thin margins.

If they sell on EBay, they are losing 13%. With an AH, around 20%. How much more do they need to cover expenses? I go to the National expecting to pay more, but not 20 or 30 percent. Supporting dealers only goes so far. I am buying higher dollar cards, so I am not interested in covering all their expenses to buy a card or two from them. If we are talking four figures, I will just wait for it to come up for auction.

[rainier2004]

We are also not comparing apples to apples here, all psa 3s are not created equal for instance.

At the show you get to see the color, its not enhanced by scans. You can look for imperfections all you want while talking to dealer, who like Chris, is really a collector in disguise. You may not buy the card but that dealer may lead you to a card, or maybe not.

People "overpay" at auction all the time, I believe a member just got hammered for this not long ago. At the show you can be the judge of everything and you get to know who stands with integrity. I would much rather do a deal with someone I trust any day and I don't overpay. Quality sells, integrity seals the deal and this is on display best at the National.

[wdwfan]

It's ashamed people aren't willing to pay say 10-15% more to be able to see and feel the card as well as walk out with it in hand and not have to wait a week for it to be shipped.

I'm with most everyone here that believes cards in person should be a little higher than eBay/market. A little like 10-15%, not double or triple.

If you want to sit at home by yourself on your computer, then buy at market/ebay price and don't go to National. But if you are willing to pay a tad bit more, visit with friends you only see once a year, see stuff in auction houses, other dealers that you'll never see on eBay, etc. then go to the National.

[OsFan]

No one way to collect is better than another. But I am genuinely surprised so many go to the national with what sounds like very limited want lists.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

It's ashamed people aren't willing to pay say 10-15% more to be able to see and feel the card as well as walk out with it in hand and not have to wait a week for it to be shipped.

I'm with most everyone here that believes cards in person should be a little higher than eBay/market. A little like 10-15%, not double or triple.

If you want to sit at home by yourself on your computer, then buy at market/ebay price and don't go to National. But if you are willing to pay a tad bit more, visit with friends you only see once a year, see stuff in auction houses, other dealers that you'll never see on eBay, etc. then go to the National.

10-20% is fine. However, if I see a dude selling a 1956 Mantle PSA 5 for $2,500, I will just laugh, shake my head, and reminisce about the time I sold my 6.5 for $800.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

10-20% is fine. However, if I see a dude selling a 1956 Mantle PSA 5 for $2,500, I will just laugh, shake my head, and reminisce about the time I sold my 6.5 for $800.

I wasn't there, but received many communications from guys who were telling me about prices on cards I want, and most were both ridiculous and apparently non-negotiable.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

I still don't understand the philosophy that if you buy a card in person at a show you should expect to pay more than market value. Why, exactly? Because a guy shelled out money to rent a table? He didn't do it for his health. Let him sell his cards to pay for his table. Or, as is usually the custom, out price any buyers and walk away without selling anything.

I feel the same way when I try to negotiate a deal anywhere. Some guy will always say, "well, i have X into it". I don't care what you have into it. What you paid for something isn't what dictates a sale price.

Right, we are basically supporting the hobby. Shows will just disappear all together if you are looking at ebay prices minus 10% (people find direct deals all the time on ebay so that 10% doesnt really mean 10%)

If you are fine with just buying online the rest of the way or going to auction houses than so be it. Just dont complain about the lack of good shows or cards stores

There are always extremes of the guys that want 3x market price. However there are a lot of cards that are 10% over ebay market price that no one will touch because they are over priced. We dont need to talk about the cards that are 3x teh price.....there are plenty, i mean plenty of cards a shade over ebay price that wont get bought by the people that say that cant find any good shows or card stores.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by the-illini

I guess don't go to the National with the intent of buying cards then?

I see plenty of exorbitant prices on Ebay every day as well.

Some people will be pessimistic no matter what. If I offered everyone on the board 1 million dollars for free, some would be pissed they didn't get more. It's human nature to gripe, I guess. Just take my wife........please . (that was my worst Rodney Dangerfield, but there is more)

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Leon

Some people will be pessimistic no matter what. If I offered everyone on the board 1 million dollars for free, some would be pissed they didn't get more. It's human nature to gripe, I guess. Just take my wife........please . (that was my worst Rodney Dangerfield, but there is more)

I heard more Henny Youngman......

[herbc]

Originally Posted by biohazard

I heard more Henny Youngman......

Beat me to it....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by herbc

Beat me to it....

I got more responses from my misquoted comedian than I do on some really good informative threads. Where is the justice? (I said that myself so I doubt it's misquoted)

.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Leon

Some people will be pessimistic no matter what. If I offered everyone on the board 1 million dollars for free, some would be pissed they didn't get more. It's human nature to gripe, I guess. Just take my wife........please . (that was my worst Rodney Dangerfield, but there is more)

Henny Youngman, actually. Rodney was "no respect".

Best sign I saw all week: "I don't care about eBay fees"

I do agree that some people can't be happy no matter what; reminds me of this joke: A woman is walking on the beach with her young son when a rogue wave takes the boy out to sea. She prays for his return and another rogue wave brings him back. She then looks up and says "he had a hat."

Part of the benefit of being able to buy at a show is being able to look at the card in hand, to negotiate over price, and to move on if you don't like what you see or what you are asked to pay. Get over your bad investor selves, people. If a card is really hard to find there is no 'market' and a seller is justified asking whatever he wants; if the card is readily found, move on to another table with it and let the dealer enjoy his card museum. I visited 'my' card at one table every year at the National for a decade. No one ever bought it because the price was so out of whack. It became sort of a running joke for me: go to the show and visit the card. I finally found one on eBay for a fraction of the cost. The dealer has stopped setting up.

[herbc]

Originally Posted by Leon

Some people will be pessimistic no matter what. If I offered everyone on the board 1 million dollars for free, some would be pissed they didn't get more. It's human nature to gripe, I guess. Just take my wife........please . (that was my worst Rodney Dangerfield, but there is more)

Mmmm.... Henny Youngman? No respect = Rodney. I'm just old.