Post national

[the-illini]

So you want dealers to pay market, set up at a card show, and sell at market?

That's a good business model.

Originally Posted by packs

I still don't understand the philosophy that if you buy a card in person at a show you should expect to pay more than market value. Why, exactly? Because a guy shelled out money to rent a table? He didn't do it for his health. Let him sell his cards to pay for his table. Or, as is usually the custom, out price any buyers and walk away without selling anything.

I feel the same way when I try to negotiate a deal anywhere. Some guy will always say, "well, i have X into it". I don't care what you have into it. What you paid for something isn't what dictates a sale price.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by the-illini

So you want dealers to pay market, set up at a card show, and sell at market?

That's a good business model.

A better one than not selling.

[the-illini]

Not really. I would rather still own the card than sell at or below cost.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A better one than not selling.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Not really. I would rather still own the card than sell at or below cost.

That's fine and your choice, but at the same time I think it's irrational to expect me to pay you more than a card is worth because it cost you money to set up.

[the-illini]

And I think its irrational for you to to be mad I won't sell at Beckett/VCP or whatever because I want something back from my time and money outlay.

Agree to disagree - no hard feelings.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's fine and your choice, but at the same time I think it's irrational to expect me to pay you more than a card is worth because it cost you money to set up.

[ullmandds]

The dynamics and psychology of buying and selling sure have changed!

I should pay more because I can hold a card in my hand prior to purchase?

I should pay more for a card because said seller has fees(which I'd assume can be written off as business expenses)associated with doing said business?

I as an attendant of any national usually have fees associated with my being there as well...transportation...hotel...etc.

The national is fun...its social...and it's cool to see buttloads of impressive cards and memorabilia...BUT...I stand my my overly negative comment that many cards are dramatically overpriced.

[packs]

If a dealer is paying market price for his cards then that dealer isn't a very good dealer and he still has no business at a show.

[Snapolit1]

Many of us buy and sell. What many sellers lose sight of is that you "win" (stupid word) a card at an auction or at a show because you were willing to pay more for it than anyone else who looked it it. I have paid $5000 for a photograph of Babe Ruth because I really wanted it. But that means no one else was willing to pay that. What are the odds I can quickly find someone to pay $7500 for that? Probably quite small. The reason I got it in the first place was I was willing to pay more than the next guy. My sunk costs don't mean much.
People do this with RMY every month. One guy in particular. Buys photos for $700 and then lists them for 4 or 5X. Is he ever going to sell them? Well, maybe if he finds an uninformed consumer he will.

[conor912]

Why do people continue to equate VCP to "what something is worth". VCP is an average. "What something is worth" is a fluid, often irrational (for both buyers AND sellers) figure taking into account many more factors than an average. Time, place, mood, attitude, all the way down to a headache or indigestion may sway what I think something is worth at any given moment.

[rainier2004]

There is some massive stereotyping in this thread, if every card was priced higher than what others thinks its worth then there would be no sales and I saw tons of cash going back and forth.

Quality sells and the National creates a perfect venue for that when you can see the quality in your hand. I saw Chris's table, didn't buy a thing from him but I'm willing to bet the only things priced high were those items that deserved to be. Just b/c you didn't buy anything doesn't make "everything" overpriced...he just didn't have any PCs I wanted.

Yes there was tons of overpriced cards there, but there were also quality buys as well. Everyone needs to ease up on this, people can sell their stuff for whatever they want and you don't have to buy it. Capitalism will take care of a lot of things.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

There is some massive stereotyping in this thread, if every card was priced higher than what others thinks its worth then there would be no sales and I saw tons of cash going back and forth.

Quality sells and the National creates a perfect venue for that when you can see the quality in your hand. I saw Chris's table, didn't buy a thing from him but I'm willing to bet the only things priced high were those items that deserved to be. Just b/c you didn't buy anything doesn't make "everything" overpriced...he just didn't have any PCs I wanted.

Yes there was tons of overpriced cards there, but there were also quality buys as well. Everyone needs to ease up on this, people can sell their stuff for whatever they want and you don't have to buy it. Capitalism will take care of a lot of things.

Agreed. I find it interesting that when an auction brings new high prices on cards people consider it a "new market value", but when the same card exchanges hands for a set price at a new high the "buyer paid too much". Both are legitimate markets and both have to be accounted for when deciding market value.

[bobbyw8469]

I have never been to a National. Call me "cheap" or whatever, but as long as I can get good cards on the internet, for a cheaper price, I can never envision myself going to a National. And I am OK with that.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by the-illini

So you want dealers to pay market, set up at a card show, and sell at market?

That's a good business model.

If dealers are paying market, then they aren't dealers they are collectors. Retail stores don't buy their stock from Wal-Mart and expect to sell it in their store. If they want to be a dealer, they need to develop wholesale markets. Otherwise, be prepared to operate on really thin margins.

If they sell on EBay, they are losing 13%. With an AH, around 20%. How much more do they need to cover expenses? I go to the National expecting to pay more, but not 20 or 30 percent. Supporting dealers only goes so far. I am buying higher dollar cards, so I am not interested in covering all their expenses to buy a card or two from them. If we are talking four figures, I will just wait for it to come up for auction.

[rainier2004]

We are also not comparing apples to apples here, all psa 3s are not created equal for instance.

At the show you get to see the color, its not enhanced by scans. You can look for imperfections all you want while talking to dealer, who like Chris, is really a collector in disguise. You may not buy the card but that dealer may lead you to a card, or maybe not.

People "overpay" at auction all the time, I believe a member just got hammered for this not long ago. At the show you can be the judge of everything and you get to know who stands with integrity. I would much rather do a deal with someone I trust any day and I don't overpay. Quality sells, integrity seals the deal and this is on display best at the National.

[wdwfan]

It's ashamed people aren't willing to pay say 10-15% more to be able to see and feel the card as well as walk out with it in hand and not have to wait a week for it to be shipped.

I'm with most everyone here that believes cards in person should be a little higher than eBay/market. A little like 10-15%, not double or triple.

If you want to sit at home by yourself on your computer, then buy at market/ebay price and don't go to National. But if you are willing to pay a tad bit more, visit with friends you only see once a year, see stuff in auction houses, other dealers that you'll never see on eBay, etc. then go to the National.

[OsFan]

No one way to collect is better than another. But I am genuinely surprised so many go to the national with what sounds like very limited want lists.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by wdwfan

It's ashamed people aren't willing to pay say 10-15% more to be able to see and feel the card as well as walk out with it in hand and not have to wait a week for it to be shipped.

I'm with most everyone here that believes cards in person should be a little higher than eBay/market. A little like 10-15%, not double or triple.

If you want to sit at home by yourself on your computer, then buy at market/ebay price and don't go to National. But if you are willing to pay a tad bit more, visit with friends you only see once a year, see stuff in auction houses, other dealers that you'll never see on eBay, etc. then go to the National.

10-20% is fine. However, if I see a dude selling a 1956 Mantle PSA 5 for $2,500, I will just laugh, shake my head, and reminisce about the time I sold my 6.5 for $800.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

10-20% is fine. However, if I see a dude selling a 1956 Mantle PSA 5 for $2,500, I will just laugh, shake my head, and reminisce about the time I sold my 6.5 for $800.

I wasn't there, but received many communications from guys who were telling me about prices on cards I want, and most were both ridiculous and apparently non-negotiable.