W600 Sporting Life Cabinet Honus Wagner PSA 7..wow

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

This one of Cy is type 2

That is a Type 1.

[benchod]

As usual, thanks to Kevin and Scott for sharing their knowledge

[jerrys]

I wrote to Joe Orlando yesterday to inquire about the new way PSA has listed W600s on their pop chart. As follows:

Jerry Spillman 10:48 PM (21 hours ago)
to Joe

Hi Joe,

Just observed your latest graded W600 cabinets. Noticed the design type has been added to all these newly graded cabinets - after all these years. All the previously graded cabinets are now disregarded even though many are exactly the same design type. Why must rare cabinets deceptively made to appear unique on the PSA pop chart when they are not. Why be dishonest with the collector who depends on an unbiased pop list. SHAME.

In browsing the first few new W600s on the pop chart I find:

Frank Chance - Uniform-Type 1* - scan shows Chance in Street Clothes - not in uniform.
*
John Chesbro - NY AL Type 2 below John Chesbro NY AL - they could be the same type - making 1 of 1 false.
*
Ty Cobb - Type 4* ALL Cobb W600s are type 4. How can this new cabinet be different than the Cobb listed above this new 1 of 1?
*
Should I go on?

Jerry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Joe Orlando 12:11 PM (8 hours ago)

to me


We can handle this over the phone.
*
You have my number.
*
Joe

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I know the Chance picture is incorrect but that has nothing to do with PSA.

I called earlier today - no response.

Apparently he is not able to defend the change.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Call me a Pollyanna, but somehow I don't think coming in with both guns blazing is necessarily the best approach...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by sb1

It's Harry Wolverton.

Little did anyone know after his playing days he retired to build treehouses...

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by jerrys

I wrote to Joe Orlando yesterday to inquire about the new way PSA has listed W600s on their pop chart. As follows:

Jerry Spillman 10:48 PM (21 hours ago)
to Joe

Hi Joe,

Just observed your latest graded W600 cabinets. Noticed the design type has been added to all these newly graded cabinets - after all these years. All the previously graded cabinets are now disregarded even though many are exactly the same design type. Why must rare cabinets deceptively made to appear unique on the PSA pop chart when they are not. Why be dishonest with the collector who depends on an unbiased pop list. SHAME.

In browsing the first few new W600s on the pop chart I find:

Frank Chance - Uniform-Type 1* - scan shows Chance in Street Clothes - not in uniform.
*
John Chesbro - NY AL Type 2 below John Chesbro NY AL - they could be the same type - making 1 of 1 false.
*
Ty Cobb - Type 4* ALL Cobb W600s are type 4. How can this new cabinet be different than the Cobb listed above this new 1 of 1?
*
Should I go on?

Jerry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Joe Orlando 12:11 PM (8 hours ago)

to me


We can handle this over the phone.
*
You have my number.
*
Joe

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I know the Chance picture is incorrect but that has nothing to do with PSA.

I called earlier today - no response.

Apparently he is not able to defend the change.

Exactly... That's what I was saying. What's going to happen to everyone who has paid for their service? Are they going to have two different pop charts on literally the same card and mount.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Call me a Pollyanna, but somehow I don't think coming in with both guns blazing is necessarily the best approach...

Originally Posted by jerrys

I wrote to Joe Orlando yesterday to inquire about the new way PSA has listed W600s on their pop chart. As follows:

Jerry Spillman 10:48 PM (21 hours ago)
to Joe

Hi Joe,

Just observed your latest graded W600 cabinets. Noticed the design type has been added to all these newly graded cabinets - after all these years. All the previously graded cabinets are now disregarded even though many are exactly the same design type. Why must rare cabinets deceptively made to appear unique on the PSA pop chart when they are not. Why be dishonest with the collector who depends on an unbiased pop list. SHAME.

In browsing the first few new W600s on the pop chart I find:

Frank Chance - Uniform-Type 1* - scan shows Chance in Street Clothes - not in uniform.
*
John Chesbro - NY AL Type 2 below John Chesbro NY AL - they could be the same type - making 1 of 1 false.
*
Ty Cobb - Type 4* ALL Cobb W600s are type 4. How can this new cabinet be different than the Cobb listed above this new 1 of 1?
*
Should I go on?

Jerry

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Joe Orlando 12:11 PM (8 hours ago)

to me


We can handle this over the phone.
*
You have my number.
*
Joe

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I know the Chance picture is incorrect but that has nothing to do with PSA.

I called earlier today - no response.

Apparently he is not able to defend the change.

My gut tells me, Jerry, knows Joe, or has had similar interactions with him before?
Imo, being as they are PSA, I think the questions and the forwardness of them are not out of line at all as PSA should clearly be wise/knowledgeable and aware of what they have in front of them and what they have seen and have graded in the past. (JMO)

[orly57]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Exactly... That's what I was saying. What's going to happen to everyone who has paid for their service? Are they going to have two different pop charts on literally the same card and mount.

They are listed separately. All Cobb's are type 4, but now that they are caraloging by types, they appear separately.

[darwinbulldog]

Isn't this always what happens when a grading company adds precision to the identification of a card? T206s have backs in the reports now. Previously they didn't. Never mind factory numbers. Would it be better for them not to refine their identification of the cards to reflect greater collector interest in cartophilic minutiae? They can't go back and make up the missing data now from variables previously ignored.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Isn't this always what happens when a grading company adds precision to the identification of a card? T206s have backs in the reports now. Previously they didn't. Never mind factory numbers. Would it be better for them not to refine their identification of the cards to reflect greater collector interest in cartophilic minutiae? They can't go back and make up the missing data now from variables previously ignored.

I agree 100%. But I think they should offer reslabbing for free or at a large discount to those who own the previously graded cards. This way they can meet their altruistic goal of having them properly catalogued.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by orly57

I agree 100%. But I think they should offer reslabbing for free or at a large discount to those who own the previously graded cards. This way they can have them properly catalogued.

I'm sure it's done on a case by case basis. Maybe they should do what auto manufactors do when they determine a flaw in their finished product which they sold. They offer a RECALL to get the problem corrected.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

I'm sure it's done on a case by case basis. Maybe they should do what auto manufactors do when they determine a flaw in their finished product which they sold. They offer a RECALL to get the problem corrected.

Good idea

[MVSNYC]

So, are they just floating in the slabs, or held in secure? I don't see any plastic internal corners , or baggys.

[jerrys]

You are probable right Scott. Just could not believe such a thoughtless policy was implemented. Having two identical cards and list them separately on a professional population chart is - . What about subsequent additions. It seems that a little extra might have been promised the submitter of 24 cabinets.

[BeanTown]

The submitter could have just the opposite happen on them as they could become the red headed step child of the series. The 24 Cabinets are not being compared to other "like" cards, as they have their own subset. Maybe now is a good time for PSA to start listing the Springfield Rose postcards in a subset ��

[Hankphenom]

Odd that he's not in the set, one of the few HOFers--maybe the only one--from that era not included.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

someone will most surely "have to have that!"

A very BIG +1!

Larry

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Odd that he's not in the set, one of the few HOFers--maybe the only one--from that era not included.

I have never understood why WaJo was never offered by The Sporting Life. The only other missing HOFer that I can think of is Speaker. He did not have his breakout season until 1909, the same as Baker, who is included in the set, but that may have something to do with The Sporting Life being a Philadelphia based company.

[irv]

Originally Posted by jerrys

I wrote to Joe Orlando yesterday to inquire about the new way PSA has listed W600s on their pop chart.
Joe Orlando 12:11 PM (8 hours ago)

to me


We can handle this over the phone.
*
You have my number.
*
Joe
..............

I called earlier today - no response.

Apparently he is not able to defend the change.

Curious, Jerry, if you ever received a return phone call or if you called again?

[jerrys]

Hi irv,

No further calls. I am sure when he answered me he was unaware of what I was complaining about. After learning what it was he could not do or admit anything.

I am a customer and expect an answer - I will persist.

[irv]

Originally Posted by jerrys

Hi irv,

No further calls. I am sure when he answered me he was unaware of what I was complaining about. After learning what it was he could not do or admit anything.

I am a customer and expect an answer - I will persist.

Good for you! I know the odds are likely against you but I hope you receive a reasonable and acceptable response.

[Mdmtx]

I am a little disappointed. I had 5 powerball tickets Saturday night. After I won I was going to find out who owned these and get them bought. But alas, there is no joy in Mudville...


P.S. maybe Wednesday. Fingers crossed

Mark

[bigfanNY]

Getting back to cards. At a Philly show when it was still held by hotel. Pat Quinn had a couple large boxes of W600's. I asked to buy a couple he quoted a price. One for Hall of farmers and one for commons and told me I could buy one HOF and one common. I pulled the Delahanty and an obscure highlander Laroy. All of the cards were in there original transparent holders and in unbelievable condition. Pat then told me that the Hof pile I looked through were all doubles. My understanding was the group was purchased by Rob Lifson and was a prized in his collection and then went to Copeland. And shortly after the auction the group sold for about 100k give or take 20 grand. I sold the Highlander to a board member and the Delahany REA/ Mastro sold around 2000. Nice to see most of the group still together.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

I sold the Highlander to a board member and the Delahany REA/ Mastro sold around 2000.

I remember that card. It was absolutely beautiful. That is the same example that recently sold in a Heritage Auction.

[sb1]

Terry Knouse told me the story years ago of a box of W600's from 1980's or so.

Also J. Rumeriz told me of a group of 600 that he and Pat Quinn and one other collector divided up, 200 each. Again many, many years ago. I bet that is the group Pat had at the show.

[A2000]

Is this that Delahanty? Recently sold at Heritage in Feb for $38,400.

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

So, are they just floating in the slabs, or held in secure? I don't see any plastic internal corners , or baggys.

I think they are in baggies but the scanner is set not show the baggie.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by A2000

Is this that Delahanty? Recently sold at Heritage in Feb for $38,400.

I didn't realize that PSA had a vintage grading department. How in the World is that Cabinet an 8?? Is that staining I see on it which looks very uniform. It's a great card, but not an 8.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

I didn't realize that PSA had a vintage grading department. How in the World is that Cabinet an 8?? Is that staining I see on it which looks very uniform. It's a great card, but not an 8.

That scan looks a bit funny to me. Here is an image of the the card when REA originally sold it in 2001. That is what I remember the card looking like.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by A2000

Is this that Delahanty? Recently sold at Heritage in Feb for $38,400.

Technical grade aside, the price is a fraction of what it would be if common sense were taken into account in our valuations. (note sarcasm). A Koufax rookie in a 9 has sold for more not long ago.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Leon

Technical grade aside, the price is a fraction of what it would be if common sense were taken into account in our valuations. (note sarcasm). A Koufax rookie in a 9 has sold for more not long ago.

Surely it's the Koufax that's priced incorrectly if we want to pretend that card prices are semi-rational. If the prices were just determined by people like me, and this seems to hold fairly well in other collectibles (antique furniture, teddy bears, etc.) a "mint" example would go for maybe twice as much as a "very good" example of the same item.