T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

Hey T206 set collectors,

Searching for an affordable Demmitt (St Louis) card ?

You might consider a T213-2 Demmitt....the image is exactly the same....if you don't mind the blue caption and it's different team name

There is usually one for sale on ebay for about $100 - 200. Just think of the $$$$ you save....you can spend it on more T206's.


.



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Pardon me for starting this OLD MILL post by first showing you my very first T206 card which I acquired in 1981 at the famous Willow Grove (PA) Show......but, I'm proud of it.

...besides Walter Johnson, Chase is my favorite player from the deadball era.


OLD MILL backs are tricky. They are tough to find on certain 150/350 series subjects. For example....


OLD MILL's are more available on subjects in the 350-only series. And, OLD MILL's are most available on subjects in the 350/460 series. OLD MILL'S get somewhat tougher
to find on subjects in the 460-only series.

Furthermore, the Exclusive 12 subjects in this latter series are very, very difficult to find with OLD MILL backs......






I do not recall of any major finds of T206 OLD MILL (Major Leaguer) cards. Does any one on this forum know of any ? If so, please chime in and tell us of them.
In recent years, Mark Macrae acquired an original T206 collection located in the Northwest. It included a fairly large number of OLD MILL cards. If I recall these
cards were all from the 350/460 series, and 460-only series.



.



To date....309 black OLD MILL Major League subjects have been confirmed.
They are listed here as a function of their respective T206 series.


150/350 Series..................123 subjects

Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Alperman
Ames (portrait)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bell (hands over head)
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (bat)
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bransfield
Bridwell (portrait-no cap)
Bresnahan (portrait)
M. Brown (portrait)
Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (red portrait)
Chase (pink portrait)
Chase (white cap)
Chesbro

Cicotte
Clarke (portrait)
JJ Clarke
Cobb (green)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Conroy (fielding)
Coveleski
Crandall (no cap)
Crawford (throwing)
Criss
George Davis (Chicago)
Harry Davis (A's)
Delehanty (Washington)
Donlin (seated)
Donovan (portrait)
Doolin
Dougherty (portrait)
Durham
Evers (portrait)
Ferris

Flick
Ganley
Gibson
Gilbert
Goode
Griffith (portrait)
Hahn
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Isbell
Jacklitsch
Jennings (portrait)
Johnson (portrait)
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands at hips)
Jordan (portrait)
Joss (portrait)
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (bat)

Killian (pitching)
Kleinow (bat)
Kling
Konetchy (glove high)
Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Lake (New York)
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Liebhardt
Lobert
Lumley
Magee (portrait)
Manning (bat)
Marquard (hands at side)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait-no cap)
McGraw (pointing)
McIntyre (Brooklyn)

McQuillan (ball in hand)
Merkle (portrait)
Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls (hands on knees)
Niles
Oldring (fielding)
O'Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)
Owen
Parent
Pastorius
Powell
Ritchey
Rucker (portrait)
Schlei (catching)
Schmidt (throwing)
Sheckard (no glove)
Shipke
F. Smith (Chicago)
Spade

Stahl (no glove)
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stone
Stovall (portrait)
Sullivan
L Tannehill (Chicago)
Tenney
Tinker (portrait)
Tinker (hands on knees)
Turner
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Wagner (bat on left)
Wallace
Walsh
Weimer
Doc White (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)
Williams
Willis (portrait)

Wiltse (portrait-no cap)
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)


350-only Series..................76 subjects

Abbott
Anderson
Atz
Batch
Beck
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brown (Washington)
Burke
Burns
Bush
Campbell
Casey
Clark
Collins (A's)
Congalton
Cravath
Cree

Dahlen (Brooklyn)
Dineen
Joe Doyle (hands over head)
Dubuc
Dunn (Baltimore)
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Easterly
Egan
Elberfeld (portrait-Washington)
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Flanagan
Freeman
Fromme
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Hallman
Hannifan
Hartsel
Hinchman (Toledo)

Hoblitzell
Hofman
Hoffman (Providence)
Hulswitt
Jackson
Kelley
Kisinger
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Kruger
Lavender
Livingstone
McCormick
Milligan
Oakes
Oberlin
Parent
Pfeister (seated)
Purtell

Quillen
Rhoades (arm extended)
Scott
Smith (Buffalo)
F. Smith (white cap)
Stanage
Stephens
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Taylor
Thomas
Titus
White (Buffalo)
Wilson
Wright
Zimmerman



350/460 series..................58 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)

Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)



460-only Series..................46 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand at waist)

Hummel
Lake, St. Louis (ball)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Six Super-Prints

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)


This survey is a work in progress....any new OLD MILL inputs are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,


TED Z
.

[Ronnie73]

The Old Mill subset is a serious task. I haven't officially focused on the subset yet, even though my Old Mill count is currently at 151. My first Old Mill purchase was a Heinie Zimmermann. My second was a Hal Chase Blue Portrait. My Old Mill SL is complete. Just doing a search on Ebay for T206 Old Mill's will show that not many non SL's are available. I will most likely focus on the Old Mill's a bit more after my Polar Bear subset is down to single digits. It should be interesting to see if a few more Old Mill's get confirmed.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





TheT206 set includes exactly 48 Southern League (SL) subjects....34 of which were printed with 3 different backs (brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350).
And, the other 14 of these cards were printed with just OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs.


Checklist of the 48 subjects in the SL series is broken down with respect to the cards with HINDU vs. the no HINDU cards........

34 subjects with brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bay
Bernhard
Breitenstein
Carey
Coles
Cranston
Ellam
Foster
Fritz
Greminger
Guiheen
Helm
Hickman
Hooker
Howard (Savannah)
Jordan (Atlanta)
Kiernan
Lafitte
Lipe
Manion
McCauley
Molesworth
Mullaney
Otey
Paige
Perdue
Persons
Reagan
Revelle
Ryan
Shaughnessy
Sid Smith (Atlanta)
Thornton
Violat


14 subjects with only OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bastian
Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King
Lentz
Miller
Orth
Rockenfeld
Seitz
Smith (Shreveport)
Stark
Thebo
Westlake
White (Houston)


Stay tuned....additional info regarding these Southern Leaguer's will follow. Including the Brown OLD MILL backs of some of the SL cards.
And, collecting the "Quadruplicate" sub-set of the twenty Southern Association cards.


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Interesting Ted. I'm looking forward to reading your theory about why some SL were not printed with a Hindu back.

[tedzan]

Hi Sean

The timeline of the print runs of the 48 subjects in the Southern League (SL) series tells us the story.

Circa..Summer > Fall 1909, the 1st press run of the SLer's (34 subjects) were printed with HINDU backs.

Circa..late 1909 > early 1910, the OLD MILL press runs started and the following 14 subjects were added
to the SL series (total = 48 subjects)......

Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King (Danville)
Lentz (Little Rock)
Orth (Lynchburg)
Rockenfeld (Montgomery)
Seitz (Norfolk)
Westlake (Danville)

Texas League

Bastian (San Antonio)
Molly Miller (Dallas)
Carlos Smith (Shreveport)
Stark (San Antonio)
Thebo (Waco)
Foley White (Houston)

Circa..Spring 1910, the PIEDMONT 350 cards were printed on all 48 - SL. Surveys indicate that these 14
additional SL subjects were were printed with PIEDMONT 350 backs in greater quantity than those of the
original 34 subjects were.


TED Z
.

[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

I have always thought that the print run of the latter 14 SLers started/ended at the same time. Two groups: 34 150/350s and 14 350-onlys. What is your reason for parsing out the 6 Texas Leaguers?

Scot

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Sean

The timeline of the print runs of the 48 subjects in the Southern League (SL) series tells us the story.

Circa..Summer > Fall 1909, the 1st press run of the SLer's (34 subjects) were printed with HINDU backs.

Circa..late 1909 > early 1910, the OLD MILL press runs started and the following 14 subjects were added
to the SL series (total = 48 subjects)......

Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King (Danville)
Lentz (Little Rock)
Orth (Lynchburg)
Rockenfeld (Montgomery)
Seitz (Norfolk)
Westlake (Danville)

Texas League

Bastian (San Antonio)
Molly Miller (Dallas)
Carlos Smith (Shreveport)
Stark (San Antonio)
Thebo (Waco)
Foley White (Houston)

Circa..Spring 1910, the PIEDMONT 350 cards were printed on all 48 - SL. Surveys indicate that these 14
additional SL subjects were were printed with PIEDMONT 350 backs in greater quantity than those of the
original 34 subjects were.


TED Z
.

Ted,
I found an ad that I think might be important on the timeline of the
printing of southern league series with Old Mill backs.

The ad was in an August 14 1909 Tampa paper. With the cards
already packaged and in transit in mid August I would think the
printing would have had to have started in late spring or early summer.

img650.jpg

[Beansballcardblog]

As I mentioned before, there is so much info that I can't seem to get a good, solid grip on it all. One question I had is, on the SLers, are there factory variations as well as the three (or two) brand variations?

Any info is greatly appreciated and thank you for sharing all of this information that you've put together!

-kin

Originally Posted by tedzan

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





TheT206 set includes exactly 48 Southern League (SL) subjects....34 of which were printed with 3 different backs (brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350).
And, the other 14 of these cards were printed with just OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs.


Checklist of the 48 subjects in the SL series is broken down with respect to the cards with HINDU vs. the no HINDU cards........

34 subjects with brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bay
Bernhard
Breitenstein
Carey
Coles
Cranston
Ellam
Foster
Fritz
Greminger
Guiheen
Helm
Hickman
Hooker
Howard (Savannah)
Jordan (Atlanta)
Kiernan
Lafitte
Lipe
Manion
McCauley
Molesworth
Mullaney
Otey
Paige
Perdue
Persons
Reagan
Revelle
Ryan
Shaughnessy
Sid Smith (Atlanta)
Thornton
Violat


14 subjects with only OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bastian
Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King
Lentz
Miller
Orth
Rockenfeld
Seitz
Smith (Shreveport)
Stark
Thebo
Westlake
White (Houston)


Stay tuned....additional info regarding these Southern Leaguer's will follow. Including the Brown OLD MILL backs of some of the SL cards.
And, collecting the "Quadruplicate" sub-set of the twenty Southern Association cards.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Hi Kin

I appreciate your kind compliments.


The answer to your question is......

OLD MILL and PIEDMONT are Factory #25.

HINDU is Factory #649.


Kin, it's a complicated set, so feel free to email me regarding any questions you have...... tedzan11@comcast.net



TED Z
.

[Beansballcardblog]

Thank you so much, Ted. I'm working on the T36 set and in it, each card has a Hassan and Mecca back, and each of those has a Factory 30 and a Factory 649 back. Wasn't sure if that might be the case on these.

-kin

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Kin

I appreciate your kind compliments.


The answer to your question is......

OLD MILL and PIEDMONT are Factory #25.

HINDU is Factory #649.


Kin, it's a complicated set, so feel free to email me regarding any questions you have...... tedzan11@comcast.net



TED Z
.

[sreader3]

Hi Kin,

Thanks for the nice words.

As Ted says there are just the three brand/factory combos for southern leaguers.

There is a footnote, however. A handful of southern leaguer cards having the Old Mill Southern back were printed in brown ink. These cards are all hand-cut i.e. scrap. Moreover, a couple of these Brown Old Mill Southerns (Greminger comes to mind) weirdly have a red Factory 649 overstrike stamp on them. If you search the Net54 archives you will find an image of the "freak" Greminger Brown Old Mill Southern Factory 649 Overstrike card somewhere.

Scot

Here's a link:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=147870

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by tedzan

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Pardon me for starting this OLD MILL post by first showing you my very first T206 card which I acquired in 1981 at the famous Willow Grove (PA) Show......but, I'm proud of it.

...besides Walter Johnson, Chase is my favorite player from the deadball era.


OLD MILL backs are tricky. They are tough to find on certain 150/350 series subjects. For example....


OLD MILL's are more available on subjects in the 350-only series. And, OLD MILL's are most available on subjects in the 350/460 series. OLD MILL'S get somewhat tougher
to find on subjects in the 460-only series.

Furthermore, the Exclusive 12 subjects in this latter series are very, very difficult to find with OLD MILL backs......






I do not recall of any major finds of T206 OLD MILL (Major Leaguer) cards. Does any one on this forum know of any ? If so, please chime in and tell us of them.
In recent years, Mark Macrae acquired an original T206 collection located in the Northwest. It included a fairly large number of OLD MILL cards. If I recall these
cards were all from the 350/460 series, and 460-only series.



.



To date....309 black OLD MILL Major League subjects have been confirmed.
They are listed here as a function of their respective T206 series.


150/350 Series..................123 subjects

Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Alperman
Ames (portrait)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bell (hands over head)
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (bat)
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bransfield
Bridwell (portrait-no cap)
Bresnahan (portrait)
M. Brown (portrait)
Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (red portrait)
Chase (pink portrait)
Chase (white cap)
Chesbro

Cicotte
Clarke (portrait)
JJ Clarke
Cobb (green)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Conroy (fielding)
Coveleski
Crandall (no cap)
Crawford (throwing)
Criss
George Davis (Chicago)
Harry Davis (A's)
Delehanty (Washington)
Donlin (seated)
Donovan (portrait)
Doolin
Dougherty (portrait)
Durham
Evers (portrait)
Ferris

Flick
Ganley
Gibson
Gilbert
Goode
Griffith (portrait)
Hahn
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Isbell
Jacklitsch
Jennings (portrait)
Johnson (portrait)
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands at hips)
Jordan (portrait)
Joss (portrait)
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (bat)

Killian (pitching)
Kleinow (bat)
Kling
Konetchy (glove high)
Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Lake (New York)
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Liebhardt
Lobert
Lumley
Magee (portrait)
Manning (bat)
Marquard (hands at side)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait-no cap)
McGraw (pointing)
McIntyre (Brooklyn)

McQuillan (ball in hand)
Merkle (portrait)
Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls (hands on knees)
Niles
Oldring (fielding)
O'Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)
Owen
Parent
Pastorius
Powell
Ritchey
Rucker (portrait)
Schlei (catching)
Schmidt (throwing)
Sheckard (no glove)
Shipke
F. Smith (Chicago)
Spade

Stahl (no glove)
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stone
Stovall (portrait)
Sullivan
L Tannehill (Chicago)
Tenney
Tinker (portrait)
Tinker (hands on knees)
Turner
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Wagner (bat on left)
Wallace
Walsh
Weimer
Doc White (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)
Williams
Willis (portrait)

Wiltse (portrait-no cap)
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)


350-only Series..................76 subjects

Abbott
Anderson
Atz
Batch
Beck
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brown (Washington)
Burke
Burns
Bush
Campbell
Casey
Clark
Collins (A's)
Congalton
Cravath
Cree

Dahlen (Brooklyn)
Dineen
Joe Doyle (hands over head)
Dubuc
Dunn (Baltimore)
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Easterly
Egan
Elberfeld (portrait-Washington)
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Flanagan
Freeman
Fromme
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Hallman
Hannifan
Hartsel
Hinchman (Toledo)

Hoblitzell
Hofman
Hoffman (Providence)
Hulswitt
Jackson
Kelley
Kisinger
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Kruger
Lavender
Livingstone
McCormick
Milligan
Oakes
Oberlin
Parent
Pfeister (seated)
Purtell

Quillen
Rhoades (arm extended)
Scott
Smith (Buffalo)
F. Smith (white cap)
Stanage
Stephens
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Taylor
Thomas
Titus
White (Buffalo)
Wilson
Wright
Zimmerman



350/460 series..................58 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)

Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)



460-only Series..................46 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand at waist)

Hummel
Lake, St. Louis (ball)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Six Super-Prints

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)


This survey is a work in progress....any new OLD MILL inputs are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,


TED Z
.

It's been a little while since we've updated or questioned the current Old Mill checklist. Here is a list of my current differences from my checklist and why. I'd post scans, but have been having some issues where I can't see my pictures but some others can. The problem came out of nowhere. I changed nothing on my end.

PRINT GROUP ONE - 150/350 SERIES

Joe Birmingham (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 4) (SGC shows 2)
Fred Clarke - Batting (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 3) (SGC shows 2)
Bob Ganley (Should not be on this list, being an elite 11)
Cy Seymour - Batting (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 0) (SGC shows 1) Patrick Romolo posted a scan recently, also.

PRINT GROUP TWO - 350 ONLY SERIES

Josh Clark (Should be removed) (Both Pop Reports Show Zero) Unless a scan can be confirmed. T206Resource shows as confirmed, but I question it.
Chief Myers - Fielding (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 13) (SGC shows 8)

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

It's been a little while since we've updated or questioned the current Old Mill checklist. Here is a list of my current differences from my checklist and why.
I'd post scans, but have been having some issues where I can't see my pictures but some others can. The problem came out of nowhere. I changed nothing on my end.

Hi Ron
I have Imageevent host all my scans. I have never had any problems posting my scans.


OK, it has been 3 years since I last updated that OLD MILL checklist in this main T206 REFERENCE thread.

If you check-out my T206 Checklist Thread.... T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists

I think you will find it's OLD MILL checklist is up-to-date. Here is the OLD MILL excerpt from it......




To date....311 subjects (Major Leaguers) have been confirmed.
They are listed here with respect to their T206 series.


150/350 Series..................125 subjects

Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Alperman
Ames (portrait)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bell (hands over head)
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (bat)
Birmingham
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bransfield
Bridwell (portrait-no cap)
Bresnahan (portrait)
M. Brown (portrait)
Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (red portrait)
Chase (pink portrait)
Chase (white cap)

Chesbro
Cicotte
Clarke (portrait)
Clarke (with bat)
JJ Clarke
Cobb (green)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Conroy (fielding)
Coveleski
Crandall (no cap)
Crawford (throwing)
Criss
George Davis (Chicago)
Harry Davis (A's)
Delehanty (Washington)
Donlin (seated)
Donovan (portrait)
Doolin
Dougherty (portrait)
Durham

Evers (portrait)
Ferris
Flick
Gibson
Gilbert
Goode
Griffith (portrait)
Hahn
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Isbell
Jacklitsch
Jennings (portrait)
Johnson (portrait)
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands at hips)
Jordan (portrait)
Joss (portrait)
Keeler (portrait)

Keeler (bat)
Killian (pitching)
Kleinow (bat)
Kling
Konetchy (glove high)
Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Lake (New York)
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Liebhardt
Lobert
Lumley
Magee (portrait)
Manning (bat)
Marquard (hands at side)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait-no cap)
McGraw (pointing)

McIntyre (Brooklyn)
McQuillan (ball in hand)
Merkle (portrait)
Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls (hands on knees)
Niles
Oldring (fielding)
O'Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)
Owen
Parent
Pastorius
Powell
Ritchey
Rucker (portrait)
Schlei (catching)
Schmidt (throwing)
Seymour (batting)
Sheckard (no glove)
Shipke

F. Smith (Chicago)
Spade
Stahl (no glove)
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stone
Stovall (portrait)
Sullivan
L Tannehill (Chicago)
Tenney
Tinker (portrait)
Tinker (hands on knees)
Turner
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Wagner (bat on left)
Wallace
Walsh
Weimer
Doc White (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)

Williams
Willis (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-no cap)
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)


350-only Series..................76 subjects

Abbott
Anderson
Atz
Batch
Beck
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brown (Washington)
Burke
Burns
Bush
Campbell
Casey
Collins (A's)
Congalton
Cravath
Cree
Dahlen (Brooklyn)

Dineen
Joe Doyle (hands over head)
Dubuc
Dunn (Baltimore)
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Easterly
Egan
Elberfeld (portrait-Washington)
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Flanagan
Freeman
Fromme
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Hallman
Hannifan
Hartsel
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell

Hofman
Hoffman (Providence)
Hulswitt
Jackson
Kelley
Kisinger
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Kruger
Lavender
Livingstone
McCormick
Milligan
Myers (fielding)
Oakes
Oberlin
Parent
Pfeister (seated)
Purtell

Quillen
Rhoades (arm extended)
Scott
Smith (Buffalo)
F. Smith (white cap)
Stanage
Stephens
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Taylor
Thomas
Titus
White (Buffalo)
Wilson
Wright
Zimmerman



350/460 series..................58 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)

Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)



460-only Series..................46 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand at waist)

Hummel
Lake, St. Louis (ball)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Six Super-Prints

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)


TED Z
.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Ron
I have Imageevent host all my scans. I have never had any problems posting my scans.


OK, it has been 3 years since I last updated that OLD MILL checklist in this main T206 REFERENCE thread.

If you check-out my T206 Checklist Thread.... T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists

I think you will find it's OLD MILL checklist is up-to-date. Here is the OLD MILL excerpt from it......

TED Z
.

Thanks Ted, for the checklist update, the changes look good. Maybe someone will come forward with a Josh Clark Old Mill. Also, thank you for a different option on hosting pictures on Net54. I'll have to give it a try the next time I'm trying to post an image.

It's got to be some setting somewhere. I have a dedicated Microsoft web server, along with Microsoft SQL with GoDaddy. I don't have any issues with other websites or direct links to pictures. But when I add that link in a post, it doesn't show up in the preview or the post for me to see it, but supposedly other users are able to see the pictures, because they comment on them. But they don't show up for me. So I can't even check for error's before posting. I even tried different browsers. It's an odd issue, probably my computer. I had a similar problem years ago when I was hosting my own web servers in my house. I couldn't see pictures or load a web page if I tried to view it directly on that web server, but if I loaded the same page on my desktop, I could see everything. It ended up being a setting on the web server IIS.

Internet connections, along with Server and Microsoft software updates, got too expensive, so now I just pay $250 a month with GoDaddy, and can run unlimited websites and databases, along with unlimited emails.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Thanks Ted, for the checklist update, the changes look good. Maybe someone will come forward with a Josh Clark Old Mill. Also, thank you for a different option on hosting pictures on Net54. I'll have to give it a try the next time I'm trying to post an image.

Ron

I was wondering if you had a chance to try Imageevent for displaying your scans ?

About a year ago, my computer had a complicated problem which prevented me from posting my scans from them. I called their help desk in California.
I was on the phone with them for 40 minutes, and their guy guided me thru several procedures till we finally solved the problem. I was quite impressed
with their service. Incidentally, their annual fee is very reasonable.

Good Luck,


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[jingram058]

A question that has been going through my pea sized brain for years, and I am sure it has been answered...why did Jefferson Burdick name the t206 cards t206 and not t205, since they came first (1909 - 1911)? Why aren't t205s (1911) t206s instead? He or no one else cared to keep the sets chronological for some reason I am missing? Just asking.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

It's been a little while since we've updated or questioned the current Old Mill checklist. Here is a list of my current differences from my checklist and why. I'd post scans, but have been having some issues where I can't see my pictures but some others can. The problem came out of nowhere. I changed nothing on my end.

PRINT GROUP ONE - 150/350 SERIES

Joe Birmingham (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 4) (SGC shows 2)
Fred Clarke - Batting (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 3) (SGC shows 2)
Bob Ganley (Should not be on this list, being an elite 11)
Cy Seymour - Batting (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 0) (SGC shows 1) Patrick Romolo posted a scan recently, also.

PRINT GROUP TWO - 350 ONLY SERIES

Josh Clark (Should be removed) (Both Pop Reports Show Zero) Unless a scan can be confirmed. T206Resource shows as confirmed, but I question it.
Chief Myers - Fielding (Should Be Added) (PSA shows 13) (SGC shows 8)

Here's a Birmingham, it's in rough shape but it's an Old Mill.

img803.jpg

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


..... Piedmont ........ Sweet Caporal .......... EPDG_______The "House" that created these Tobacco cards______UZIT ................ Hindu ....... American Beauty


I have always been fascinated by the Joe Doyle Nat'L card and the T207 Chester "Red" Hoff cards. I've never owned the Doyle Nat'L card; however, I have handled 2 of them
over these past 14 years in the process of ascertaining their legitimacy. One of them was legitimate. The other one was a FAKE, as indicated by a very subtle minute flaw.

Anyhow, both them started pitching for the NY Highlanders. Both only 5' 9" and both had only 5-year careers. Here's where they differ....Joe Doyle lived to age 66, Chet Hoff
lived to the grand old age of 107.

Regarding their BB cards......
The Joe Doyle Nat'L card is the scarcest T206 card with only 9 of them (or perhaps 10) that are known (as of this date).
The Chet Hoff card is by no means a rare card; however, it is one of the tougher cards to find in the T207 set.

------



Stay tuned for more on this subject.


TED Z
.

[brianp-beme]

Your T207 Hoff is a great looking card, and the Hoff card is one of the nicer portraits in the set. The one I have is my only T207 Cycle, and it has the added bonus of Buck Barker scribbling on its back as well. All of this makes it one of my T207 favorites.

Brian

[53toppscollector]

Is this the thread for general T206 discussion/questions? Because I wanted to talk about Hindu Browns.

As I put together my Excel master tracker for my portraits project, and as I did my research on the different backs, I obviously came to understand that Hindu Brown was the toughest back for the 150 series, and I'd have to track down a lot of tough HoF in the Hindu back. However, I don't think I appreciated just how scarce some of these backs actually are.

Today I was taking a look through ebay just to see what was listed and what has been sold in the last 3 months in the Hindu Brown department, and let me tell you, its not a lot at all.

21 total sales in the last 3 months
12 cards currently listed for sale

They are still more populous than Carolina Brights, Broad Leaf, Lenox, Drum, and Uzit, but not that much more. Of the 21 sales noted above, it was actually less than 21 unique subjects, because there were multiple Griffith and Clarkes sold.

For the purposes of my master portrait project, I created 3 groups of backs: All Piedmonts + SweetCaps (except Piedmont 42), then AB, Cycle, EPDG, Old Mill, Polar Bear, Sovereign, Tolstoi and P42, and the third group of Hindu Brown/Red, Carolina Brights, Broad Leaf, Drum, Lenox and Uzit. I initially thought it might have been wrong to group the Brown Hindu in with that 3rd "ultra rare" group, but the more I think about it, the more I think that is appropriate at this point, given their availability.

I put together a combined PSA + SGC Pop report for the portraits back in June/July, and the combined populations of Hindu Brown range from 9 (O'Leary) to 38 (WaJo) with an average of about 20.

What is interesting is that if you compare the Hindu Brown totals to a back that is perceived to be less scarce like Tolstoi, it is quite interesting. There are currently 93 Tolstois listed on ebay (I didnt check each one, but it looks like this count is close), and there were 54 Tolstois sold in the last 3 months. When you dig into pop reports, I have 54 possible portraits in a Tolstoi back, with pops ranging from 1 (Rossman) to 44 (Chance Yellow and Crandall w/Cap), with an average population of 14. So on average, a Tolstoi back will be more rare than a Brown Hindu for the portrait subjects, but there are more Tolstois on the market than Brown Hindus. Using the old multipliers for pricing, if I remember right the Tolstoi was around 3x and the Brown Hindu was around 14x in Scot Reader's 2012 update.

As of now, I believe the complete Tolstoi checklist is 255 cards, with another 59 that are possible/probable. The Hindu Brown checklist is 136 cards. There is no way to directly compare them, since no subject with a Brown Hindu back also appears with a Tolstoi back.

Curious to hear thoughts on this