What the hell is the deal with this PWCC auction

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

David I just thanked you for your "advice" on that BST thread. Much appreciated.

I don't doubt that they have great stuff and frequently get great prices. But to me that's really beside the point of the thread.

The card in question is a Pop 1 from the 1965 Topps set and just happens to be a Triple Crown Winner with 586 career home runs.

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...opps-basic/752

There are some serious players collecting this set. Think about how much cash it takes to put together a complete mint set. Take a look at the top set and how impressive that GPA is and the total domination since 2007. They obviously don't own the card. No one does.

Who are you or me to even remotely determine what this card should sell for. For all we know the $50,000 high bid that was placed might be within reason for what collectors who want to own this card feel is a market clearing price.

At the end of the day at least the card came to market and more than one person got a shot at it and kudos to PWCC for getting to sell it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If someone wants to buy an arbitrary 10 flip so be it. I would bet anything that raw or with the flip hidden you couldn't pick it out in a group of 9s. I started the thread because of the four retractions two of which were by a bidder with 14 retractions (the other only had 9 LOL), not the price.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If someone wants to buy an arbitrary 10 flip so be it. I would bet anything that raw or with the flip hidden you couldn't pick it out in a group of 9s. I started the thread because of the four retractions two of which were by a bidder with 14 retractions (the other only had 9 LOL), not the price.

I have one EBAY ID. I would imagine you do too. There are plenty who don't. The two bidders might have several other ID's for all we know and will bid under another name anyway.


You guys are expecting perfection and it is never coming.


Get mad at EBAY and write their CEO everyday. Until they change their policy the bid retractions aren't going away. As I said the fact that PWCC is even trying is great for collectors and overtime there will be progress.


Until then they will continue to offer the best cards on EBAY month after month.

[Peter_Spaeth]

David, I don't disagree that ebay condones a great deal of fraud and BS, but again I think you're deflecting attention from the immediate issue which is PWCC's failure to enforce its own stated policy about which it made such a big deal.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

David, I don't disagree that ebay condones a great deal of fraud and BS, but again I think you're deflecting attention from the immediate issue which is PWCC's failure to enforce its own "policy."

There are grey areas within many policies. I have never retracted a bid but I have been involved in a few and it might be four to six bids that are retracted from one auction. Maybe they take other issues into account when holding a hard line. Honestly if I was a seller and someone had spent 60k with me and as pointed out probably has sold cards too, I would cut them some slack in some cases. Maybe this is one of them.

Everyone thinks they are a sleuth, myself included and many times we simply get it wrong. Just looking at bids and percentages and so on doesn't always tell the entire story.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

There are grey areas within many policies. I have never retracted a bid but I have been involved in a few and it might be four to six bids that are retracted from one auction. Maybe they take other issues into account when holding a hard line. Honestly if I was a seller and someone had spent 60k with me and as pointed out probably has sold cards too, I would cut them some slack in some cases. Maybe this is one of them.

Everyone thinks they are a sleuth, myself included and many times we simply get it wrong. Just looking at bids and percentages and so on doesn't always tell the entire story.

Fine, but then don't (PWCC, not you) come on here with all these sanctimonious posts about your policies and supposed anti-fraud efforts. If you are going to talk a big game, then live up to it.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fine, but then don't (PWCC, not you) come on here with all these sanctimonious posts about your policies and supposed anti-fraud efforts. If you are going to talk a big game, then live up to it.

If I were their PR firm I would do what Rick Probstein did and stop posting all together. Every time they post their haters aren't satisfied with the answer and in some cases they have made the perception even worse.

Personally I like the transparency of them attempting to respond but in many cases in life just telling your side of the story gets you no where.

One of the tough parts about Internet communication is there are a lot of tough guys behind a keyboard. Just look at any news story that hits a social media site.

With so many harsh critics they will never win the debate so don't even have one.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

David, I don't disagree that ebay condones a great deal of fraud and BS, but again I think you're deflecting attention from the immediate issue which is PWCC's failure to enforce its own stated policy about which it made such a big deal.

Which is why they made a HUGE mistake in making a defined number of retraction their policy. They've already broken it because the guy has spent $60,000 in three months with them. There really is nothing to be gained by them posting anything here at all. If anything they should have made the statement that we will try our best to determine when fraud is happening in our auctions and take action...in the meantime we will try our best to lobby ebay to change the rules on bid retractions.

If anything my guess is that ebay will hide all bidding information from buyers before they ever get rid of retractions. They make a whole lot of money from the fraud they pretend doesn't exist.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

As I said the fact that PWCC is even trying is great for collectors and overtime there will be progress.

How many bidders have been banned since PWCC went live with their new bid retraction policy?

[toledo_mudhen]

Wow - Tough crowd here. A quick check shows PWCC with close to 6,000 auctions going on right now. Probably a bit much to police everyone of them. You guys outted this one and Brent responded. No one is forcing you to bid on his auctions.

[bxb]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Wow - Tough crowd here. A quick check shows PWCC with close to 6,000 auctions going on right now. Probably a bit much to police everyone of them. You guys outted this one and Brent responded. No one is forcing you to bid on his auctions.

Based on the number of PWCC bidders vs the number of critics on this thread, the latter is small (but vocal) potatoes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Wow - Tough crowd here. A quick check shows PWCC with close to 6,000 auctions going on right now. Probably a bit much to police everyone of them. You guys outted this one and Brent responded. No one is forcing you to bid on his auctions.

This is their highest or second highest dollar auction. And they claimed to have a full time hire weeding out fraud. Straw man argument imo.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Wow - Tough crowd here. A quick check shows PWCC with close to 6,000 auctions going on right now. Probably a bit much to police everyone of them. You guys outted this one and Brent responded. No one is forcing you to bid on his auctions.

The excuse of "Probably a bit much to police everyone of them." is a horrible excuse to make for PWCC. That excuse would not fly for any other company, in any other line of business...period.

Imagine someone using an Etrade account as a front for fraudulent manipulation of shares and market prices to gain an advantage, and then Etrade's excuse was "Oh, we're sorry, we're trying REALLY hard to combat fraud on our site but since we have to monitor 175,000 trades daily...you cant expect us to police all of those...do you?"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by markf31

The excuse of "Probably a bit much to police everyone of them." is a horrible excuse to make for PWCC. That excuse would not fly for any other company, in any other line of business...period.

Imagine someone using an Etrade account as a front for fraudulent manipulation of shares and market prices to gain an advantage, and then Etrade's excuse was "Oh, we're sorry, we're trying REALLY hard to combat fraud on our site but since we have to monitor 175,000 trades daily...you cant expect us to police all of those...do you?"

Not only that, but how freaking hard is it to police say your 100 most expensive auctions (which is where most of the fraud is going to occur) when you (allegedly) have a full time anti-fraud hire in your employ? Virtually every auction that's been outed on this board has been of a high dollar card. It's a stupid trope we see over and over again here from the make excuses crowd. The Brian Moynihan defense.

[iowadoc77]

Great point Mark!
If they are "responsible" for 1 listing then they are responsible for all. If 6,000 listings is too many, then there is a problem. Simple solution- more help to scrutinize each auction or fewer auctions.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

How many bidders have been banned since PWCC went live with their new bid retraction policy?

I don't know you tell me.

I haven't seen them release a number and I see so no reason to. The haters who would care to see a number produced wouldn't believe it anyway so there is nothing to gain for them.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Man, those must be some mad hatters...

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Man, those must be some mad hatters...

No spelling bee champ here. Haha

[Bigshot69]

Do you think this is causing the hat industry to suffer in the near term?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Bigshot69

Do you think this is causing the hat industry to suffer in the near term?

I think it is more long term. I also think it is a benefit because lies like steroids make your head swell up. Once that happens you will need a new hat.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I don't know you tell me.

I haven't seen them release a number and I see so no reason to. The hatters who would care to see a number produced wouldn't believe it anyway so there is nothing to gain for them.

Why would anyone believe the # if the released it. They come on here and lie about #'s almost every time they post.

I am with you on the they need to just STFU and quit posting their lies over and over. The being quiet works or at least causes way less people to point out your constant lies.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Why would anyone believe the # if the released it. They come on here and lie about #'s almost every time they post.

I am with you on the they need to just STFU and quit posting their lies over and over. The being quiet works or at least causes way less people to point out your constant lies.

Not like there are any savvy people on here, or anywhere else, who are bidding on their auctions. If there was a card of interest, time has proven even with a bad rep, people will still bid, albeit through a snipe.

[Jeffrompa]

There is not enough bidders on eBay to block the bad ones .

[ruth-gehrig]

"Cut small from the factory"? Now why didn't Mastro think of that explanation?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401335770873...84.m1436.l2649