Quality Autographs & Memorabilia (Kevin Keating)

[chaddurbin]

I mean what kind of shell life are we talking here at psa, 5-6 years max most likely? they're getting a steady paycheck and benefits etc...why would they need to fire sale their inventory/collection? there'll be life after psa.

...and again, i hope richard/jim will be the next authenticators after kevin et al leave. i know they don't want that, but it's relatively easy work and they deserve it. time to cash in on that cache!

[dgo71]

Wow, had no idea. Thanks for the info everyone. Can't stand the TPA's or really anything about what they do so that is very unfortunate news for me.

[MooseDog]

Just a guess, but I would imagine a deal in which you were forced to give up your business would involve some kind of equity deal. In other words, they were probably offered salary plus stock in Collectors Universe which would vest over a period (probably 4 years, gradual vesting - some after year 1, some more after year 2, etc).

The bigger question is that Keating had REALLY high prices...if he's taken all that stuff out of the market does the perceived value of some of the more rare signatures go down (Jim S and Rich S tend to offer/sell at more realistic prices) or will those rare signatures now be harder to find if the Keating inventory is no longer available?

[jimjim]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

Just a guess, but I would imagine a deal in which you were forced to give up your business would involve some kind of equity deal. In other words, they were probably offered salary plus stock in Collectors Universe which would vest over a period (probably 4 years, gradual vesting - some after year 1, some more after year 2, etc).

The bigger question is that Keating had REALLY high prices...if he's taken all that stuff out of the market does the perceived value of some of the more rare signatures go down (Jim S and Rich S tend to offer/sell at more realistic prices) or will those rare signatures now be harder to find if the Keating inventory is no longer available?

Great point. A lot of the stuff was priced super high, and he would not come down on any of it. Even the not rare stuff. Never made sense to me how you can run a business that way, when other people and auction houses are selling things for half the price you're charging.

[JimStinson]

Richard what if the offer was .........

[RichardSimon]

ROFL,, but not enough

[thetruthisoutthere]

I have only submitted a few autographs to PSA for authentication, and I have always been a defender of the TPA's, but I have to admit that since Steve Grad left PSA, I won't be submitting anything to them. I have seen too many glaring mistakes by the present staff.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by jimjim

Great point. A lot of the stuff was priced super high, and he would not come down on any of it. Even the not rare stuff. Never made sense to me how you can run a business that way, when other people and auction houses are selling things for half the price you're charging.

+1

His prices were absurd.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by jimjim

Great point. A lot of the stuff was priced super high, and he would not come down on any of it. Even the not rare stuff. Never made sense to me how you can run a business that way, when other people and auction houses are selling things for half the price you're charging.

We've been through all this many times before, but as he explained it to me, Kevin's approach to pricing autographs relied to a great extent on the answer to the question: "how much is it going to cost me to replace this in my inventory?" As for the idea that he was higher than other dealers, Kevin has always been convinced that other dealers used his extensive and highly visible (every week in SCD) lists to price their autographs, making sure they were below his. And having set up at shows with him for 15 years, the idea that he would not negotiate is just a complete fabrication, totally untrue. Finally, I'll tell you what he would say to me when I'd relay to him some grumbling I had heard about how high his prices were. "Oh yeah, why are they wasting their time whining about me when they could be buying up all the great cheap autographs out there, why would they even care what I charge for mine?" The answer is obvious, and so is the fact that he was probably the biggest volume dealer of vintage sports autographs in the country for decades and is now its top authenticator.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by jimjim

Great point. A lot of the stuff was priced super high, and he would not come down on any of it. Even the not rare stuff. Never made sense to me how you can run a business that way, when other people and auction houses are selling things for half the price you're charging.

We've been through all this many times before, but as he explained it to me, Kevin's approach to pricing autographs relied to a great extent on the answer to the question: "how much is it going to cost me to replace this in my inventory?" As for the idea that he was higher than other dealers, Kevin has always been convinced that other dealers used his extensive and highly visible (every week in SCD) lists to price their autographs, making sure they were below his. And having set up at shows with him for 15 years, the idea that he would not negotiate is just a complete fabrication, totally untrue. Finally, I'll tell you what he would say to me when I'd relay to him some grumbling I had heard about how high his prices were. "Oh yeah, why are they wasting their time whining about me when they could be buying up all the great cheap autographs out there, why would they even care what I charge for mine?" The answer is obvious, and so is the fact that he was probably the biggest volume dealer of vintage sports autographs in the country for decades and is now its top authenticator.

[Klrdds]

I dealt with Kevin for 20 years and was one of his first customers and I never paid the listed price for an item . He and I always came to a price we both were happy with . But as with most dealers the more I bought especially in price or quantity or in most cases both the better the prices.
In fact when he published his Negro League Autograph Guide book I bought all of the examplars he used in the book that he offered for sale , which amounted to a few dozen signatures, and he set it up on a 3 month payment plan for me.
We saw each other at the National whenever it was in Atlanta and I got great prices then also from him when he could have sold the items for more money. I always found him easy to deal with and fair.

[cfhofer]

I found Rich and Kevin to be very reasonable and willing to negotiate. I have to imagine the driving force for them getting out was their lack of fresh vintage inventory. More and more collectors are choosing to either consign their quality pieces to auction or sell direct to another collector (thanks to networking forums like this). If you need to bid against your customers for new inventory it is probably time to hang it up.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

I mean what kind of shell life are we talking here at psa, 5-6 years max most likely? they're getting a steady paycheck and benefits etc...why would they need to fire sale their inventory/collection? there'll be life after psa.

...and again, i hope richard/jim will be the next authenticators after kevin et al leave. i know they don't want that, but it's relatively easy work and they deserve it. time to cash in on that cache!

There is not enough money that any company could offer me to make me an authenticator.
Too many compromises to be made, definitely not for me.
Life compromises with my time and my life which involves either way too much traveling and/or living somewhere else and the ethical compromises when certain auction houses want you to do certain things.
Good luck to Kevin, Rich and Bill but that would not be what I want.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Life compromises with my time and my life which involves either way too much traveling and/or living somewhere else and the ethical compromises when certain auction houses want you to do certain things.
Good luck to Kevin, Rich and Bill but that would not be what I want.

"But glittering prizes
And endless compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity, yeah"
Rush - The Spirit of Radio

[HexsHeroes]

.

I spoke with Nitsa, Kevin Keating's assistant, a week or two ago and she said
that Kevin still has inventory, and if there was anything specific I was
interested in, to inquiry and they would send a list of what is available.
I believe they still use the email associated with QAM; it might not get checked
as frequently as it use to though.


She can be contacted at:

Nitsa
www.QualityAutographs.com
(Office) (703) 519 - 9881
(Fax) (703) 519 - 9850