W600 Sporting Life Cabinets - different mount types

[h2oya311]

Thanks. Do you agree though that all signs point to the Cabinet mounts (and therefore photos on the mounts) being produced in certain time-frames? To me, it is obvious that there will never be a type 1 or type 2 Cobb. Can you not do the same time-stamping with the type 3s and 4s? If a type 3 were to emerge with a player like Cobb, I would argue that this particular Cabinet pre-dates his Type 4 example. I don't care if it wasn't delivered to Joe Schmoe until 1912, the card was likely produced before the type 4.

I'm just trying to pinpoint some dates with FACTS.

Your argument that the Cabinets were overproduced and sometimes not sold until years later actually lends support to my assertion. But thank you for educating me on them being printed on the cabinets vs. mounted. I think that helps my case. Perhaps there were a handful of extra old type stock, but I'd guess the company would have exhausted the old type and moved onto the new stock for newer players and/or team changes.

I still find it very odd that the Davy Jones Cabinet from his time with Chicago (1904-1905) has a type 4 mount, unless 1905 is when the type 4s started being used (almost exclusively) by Sporting Life. Again, if someone can show me an example of a type 3 mount for player/team combo that was offered by Sporting Life starting in the 1906-1907 time-frame, I'd be very interested.

[sb1]

I think it's generally agreed that all of the type 4's are post 1907. The images may date from several years before, the mount itself and the team will more accurately pinpoint the date.

I guess its time to go thru and list the mounts on my cabinets so that I might provide further data.

I also feel I should add that most W600 collectors have little concern which mount a player is on, this seems to be pushed more recently by a couple of auction houses to provide more fodder for the write-up and create a perceived rarity.

[Baseball Rarities]

Type 1: 1902
Type 2: end of 1902 through middle of 1903
Type 3: middle of 1903 through end of 1903, maybe beginning of 1904
Type 4: 1904 until the end

I can go into more detail if anyone has a specific question.

Just for reference, here is a Type 4 Wagner that just sold in Heritage. It is dated on the back May 23, 1906, so I assume that was when the person received the cabinet.

[sb1]

And.....one of the two most knowledgeable persons of W600's has spoken. Kevin has spent a great deal of time researching the offerings and dates of W600's directly from the SL issues.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Type 1: 1902
Type 2: end of 1902 through middle of 1903
Type 3: middle of 1903 through end of 1903, maybe beginning of 1904
Type 4: 1904 until the end

I can go into more detail if anyone has a specific question.

Just for reference, here is a Type 4 Wagner that just sold in Heritage. It is dated on the back May 23, 1906, so I assume that was when the person received the cabinet.

Hi Kevin....Joe T. Do you know the release date for the Type 2 Street Clorhes Wagner? Curious to know if it was issued before the end of 1902 or in 1903. Thx Kevin!

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Hi Kevin....Joe T. Do you know the release date for the Type 2 Street Clorhes Wagner? Curious to know if it was issued before the end of 1902 or in 1903. Thx Kevin!

Hey Joe - You would have to assume that the type 2s of Wagner were produced at the same time as all of the other original type 2s, which was in November of 1902. AFAIK, there is no way to know when the SL ran out of type 1 Wagners and began shipping the type 2s.

Other type 2 players, such as Mathewson, can be more definitively dated. Mathewson was not offered by the SL until January 31, 1903, so his card obviously would not date from 1902.

The way that I was able to date the four different mounts was by studying when each of the HOFers was first offered by the SL in their newspaper and then comparing that with what the mounts were known for the cabinets that exist of that player. For example, Brown was first offered in their October 1, 1904 issues. AFAIK, Brown is only known with a type 4 mount. On the other hand, Bresnahan and Burkett was first offered in their September 26, 1903 issue and are both known with type 3 mounts.

I went through and did the same thing with all 37 HOFers that appear in the set and created a matrix based on when they were first offered and what mounts are known to exist. In addition, I have done the same with lots of "common" players as well. So far, I have not found a single card that falls outside of the date range that I originally posted.

[BeanTown]

The one on the left is the earliest mount Cy Young is on which is a type 1 (thanks Kevin). The one on the right is Cy on a type 4 mount.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

The one on the left is the earliest mount Cy Young is on which is a type 2. The one on the right is Cy on a type 4 mount.

The one on the left is a type 1.

[h2oya311]

Oh, and my Joss fits the bill as well, being on a Type 3 cabinet (1903-04). I have certainly seen plenty of Type 4's w/ this same image:



My question to everyone (ahem, Kevin) is, does a Type 3 exist of Ed Walsh (first issued in 1904)?

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Type 1: 1902
Type 2: end of 1902 through middle of 1903
Type 3: middle of 1903 through end of 1903, maybe beginning of 1904
Type 4: 1904 until the end

Kevin - thank you, as always! I'm glad you have already gone through this exercise as it will undoubtedly save me quite a bit of time. Again, I listed some commons up above that could help. Instead of only looking at when 4's started coming into play (since they conceivably could have been issued well after 1904, even if it was a HOF player), I was trying to take the approach of when the last type 3 might have come into circulation. The commons with team changes or the first issue of a player could help. Find the last 3 produced, and you have a more definitive date.

Given the dates you provided, my type 3 Tinker would place it right in the 1903-04 time-frame, making it his official "rookie" card (ignoring team photos)! Woo-hoo! Most W600 Tinkers I've seen have the type 4 cabinet, and, as such, would be less desirable to me (although not a concern to most W600 collectors).

Thanks for everyone's help so far. Again, if anyone has a type 3 mount for a player listed in the original post, please contribute as this would help nail down the date that type 3's stopped being used.

My Tinker w/ Type 3 Mount:

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Given the dates you provided, my type 3 Tinker would place it right in the 1903-04 time-frame, making it his official "rookie" card (ignoring team photos)! Woo-hoo! Most W600 Tinkers I've seen have the type 4 cabinet, and, as such, would be less desirable to me (although not a concern to most W600 collectors).

Both Tinker and Evers were first offered by the SL on August 22, 1903, therefore the first cards of each are type 3s.