Bad Experience with Fellow Member

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

OK, so he was definitely a little quick with the thread, but I HATE when guys say "any chance of reaching an agreement is now dead" That's a total copout. Either you'll give a refund or you won't. Clearly you won't. There is no way I can conscience that. As with most situations both parties bear some blame, but ultimately it can be made right at no loss (hit him up for shipping if you like) so what GOOD reason can you have for not issuing a refund???

[slipk1068]

He may be wrong for starting a thread before giving you adequate time to respond to his refund request, but you are WAY wrong for not issuing a refund. That card not a 3. We like to feel safe around here. A refund should be issued or you should be banned.

[rainier2004]

I guess I am surprised by some responses on here. I would agree that Tim needs to issue a refund though.

What surprises me is that everyone is jumping on the claim the Tim said it would grade a 3. Man, I don't even listen to someone when they say stuff like that as I will determine what it would grade, not someone else if I am buying.

So would the deal have been acceptable if Tim hadn't said "it should grade a 3"?

[slipk1068]

Interesting. I feel if he hadn't mentioned grading a 3, the buyer wouldn't be entitled to a refund but should still get one. This isn't the ebay jungle. I like to believe BST is somewhat safer. Even on ebay, the buyer would be able to file a claim through paypal and likely get a refund.

If I was the seller I would be angry that this was taken public before I had a chance to make it right. VERY angry. My initial reaction would probably be the same or similar to the seller. But if I put myself in the buyer's shoes, the card was not described properly and the pic was at best, poor quality. As the buyer, I might even think the pic was deceptive. Refund less whatever he is out for shipping seems like the right thing to do.

[sterlingfox]

I agree that a refund should be issued minus the shipping, or there should be an immediate ban. I wouldn't feel safe anymore in the BST, otherwise.

[seablaster]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

So would the deal have been acceptable if Tim hadn't said "it should grade a 3"?

I'd be inclined to say yes.

The seller indicated that he is not a professional and offers no guarantee. That is perfectly fine, but then I wouldn't make a prediction as to what the card would possibly grade. I would suggest posting clear, accurate scans and allow potential buyers to make their own determination.

Perhaps it is a question of degrees. To me, I believe that card would grade a 1.5. That is enough standard deviations away from a 3 where I think a potential recipient would be unhappy with the transaction.

I'd also agree that the seller had little time to respond before drastic action was taken by the creation of this thread.

[Paul S]

Two complete rookies, one a seller and the other a buyer, both way in over their respective heads in what would normally be the easiest of transactions. One should learn how to provide a decent representation of their product in both images and words, and the other undertaking a huge project by having to resort to a ton of help when nothing goes as exactly planned. Issue a refund and be done with it. Then each take a step back until they know the simplest of academics. - P. S(p)ector

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Paul S

Two complete rookies, one a seller and the other a buyer, both way in over their respective heads in what would normally be the easiest of transactions. One should learn how to provide a decent representation of their product in both images and words, and the other undertaking a huge project by having to resort to a ton of help when nothing goes as exactly planned. Issue a refund and be done with it. Then each take a step back until they know the simplest of academics. - P. S(p)ector

^^^^^^^^^

perfectly stated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by seablaster

I'd be inclined to say yes.

The seller indicated that he is not a professional and offers no guarantee. That is perfectly fine, but then I wouldn't make a prediction as to what the card would possibly grade. I would suggest posting clear, accurate scans and allow potential buyers to make their own determination.

Perhaps it is a question of degrees. To me, I believe that card would grade a 1.5. That is enough standard deviations away from a 3 where I think a potential recipient would be unhappy with the transaction.

I'd also agree that the seller had little time to respond before drastic action was taken by the creation of this thread.

I still surprised when people predict a half grade. Half grades occur so infrequently compared to a base grade . I would say a 1 or 2 range and not say 1.5

sometimes buyers beg for the seller to give an estimate of the grade when the seller says hes not a professional grader. So if the buyer begs and begs and the seller says, i guess it could be a 3....would the buyer also be entitled to a refund for the seller being so way off..

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I still surprised when people predict a half grade. Half grades occur so infrequently compared to a base grade . I would say a 1 or 2 range and not say 1.5

Because 1.5 is not a half grade. It is a FAIR card. Fair is a standard way of assessing a raw card. For other ranges, you can see a card that normally looks like a 6 due to corner wear or surface issue, but might predict a 6.5 due to exact centering on a normally poorly centered issue.
As to this card, I think Fair is a reasonable assessment of this card, and neither side did the right thing. eBay would have suspended EYECOLLECT for feedback extortion, but they would have also forced a return for Item Not As Described.

[Bored5000]

I don't think either side covered themselves in glory with this transaction. It seems like each side was looking to "get over" on the other one. That card would not grade as a "3" but the buyer didn't pay market rate for a "3," either.

VCP shows that a PSA "3" for a '56 Mantle is $374.36. Of the last 24 PSA 3 sales of the card, there isn't a single sale under $315.00. For SGC, the average sale price for a "3" is $337.13.

The buyer should be refunded, but it should raise some red flags when a raw card is priced 25-30 percent under VCP.

What a trainwreck over what really isn't a lot of money.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I don't think either side covered themselves in glory with this transaction. It seems like each side was looking to "get over" on the other one. That card would not grade as a "3" but the buyer didn't pay market rate for a "3," either.

VCP shows that a PSA "3" for a '56 Mantle is $374.36. Of the last 24 PSA 3 sales of the card, there isn't a single sale under $315.00. For SGC, the average sale price for a "3" is $337.13.

The buyer should be refunded, but it should raise some red flags when a raw card is priced 25-30 percent under VCP.

What a trainwreck over what really isn't a lot of money.

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

That is why I said you should get a refund. But a true "3" is not a $250 card. That pretty much means looking to get over on someone to me.

The seller misrepresented the condition, and you should get a refund because of that; the price you paid wasn't 30 percent under VCP. Not to be flippant, but a 30 percent discount off of VCP falls into the "If something looks too good to be true..." category, IMO.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

Others are protected... By their knowledge of the hobby, and by not having a desire to grab something cheaply off of others to make a quick buck.

And you stated your intention... So did he.
You said it yourself... He said "I THINK it will be a 3"
And "I WON'T offer any guarantees".....
You ACCEPTED those conditions making the purchase.... Right?

Is there no PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY left in the world??

Honestly Stephen, accept the position you put yourself in, and move on like a big boy...
Its a learning experience that you sorely need.

Focus on your trade up scenario, as you seem to be getting support and it looks like you could make that a reality.
Its not a huge loss to take, and considering the enthusiam you show (which I like), you'll spring back, plus you'd earn the respect of a lot of board members by just moving on.

Just my opinion Stephen, but don't let this scenario sour you.....
Everyone has transactions they regret... You'll rise above it in the end.
Take care.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Others are protected... By their knowledge of the hobby, and by not having a desire to grab something cheaply off of others to make a quick buck.

And you stated your intention... So did he.
You said it yourself... He said "I THINK it will be a 3"
And "I WON'T offer any guarantees".....
You ACCEPTED those conditions making the purchase.... Right?

Is there no PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY left in the world??

Honestly Stephen, accept the position you put yourself in, and move on like a big boy...
Its a learning experience that you sorely need.

Focus on your trade up scenario, as you seem to be getting support and it looks like you could make that a reality.
Its not a huge loss to take, and considering the enthusiam you show (which I like), you'll spring back, plus you'd earn the respect of a lot of board members by just moving on.

Just my opinion Stephen, but don't let this scenario sour you.....
Everyone has transactions they regret... You'll rise above it in the end.
Take care.

Yes but the idea is that the board should live up to a higher standard of customer service, friendliness, support, whatever you want to call it.

Clearly from Tim's listings and his response to another potential buyer, he was someone coming in to make a hit and run. Unfortunately he did just that, and the people most vulnerable to a situation like that are guys like Stephen, with a few bucks, a little knowledge, and a huge desire to get ahead.

This was absolutely NOT a case of an innocent mistake by a seller, but a calculated attempt to defraud, or at least "beat" any number of potential buyers. He came on as a complete newb to the board and posted a ton of ads immediately.

Coincidentally, one of the reasons I try and see the good in Stephen is I made at least one deal with him before his foray into more atteniton-grabbing posts. It was a good deal for both of us on a tough item. I'm no rookie, though I haven't been on n54 long, there is very little chance of someone rooking me, and even less chance of me dealing with a person who even gives me the impression of TRYING to get over on me. I came out ahead on the item, He feels he did great on it too I'm sure. But the main impression he gave me is one of enthusiasm. If he could hang out on here long enough and read widely enough those dewy spots behind his ears should dry quite nicely. as for the attention thing...

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Yes but the idea is that the board should live up to a higher standard of customer service, friendliness, support, whatever you want to call it.

Clearly from Tim's listings and his response to another potential buyer, he was someone coming in to make a hit and run. Unfortunately he did just that, and the people most vulnerable to a situation like that are guys like Stephen, with a few bucks, a little knowledge, and a huge desire to get ahead.

This was absolutely NOT a case of an innocent mistake by a seller, but a calculated attempt to defraud, or at least "beat" any number of potential buyers. He came on as a complete newb to the board and posted a ton of ads immediately.

Coincidentally, one of the reasons I try and see the good in Stephen is I made at least one deal with him before his foray into more atteniton-grabbing posts. It was a good deal for both of us on a tough item. I'm no rookie, though I haven't been on n54 long, there is very little chance of someone rooking me, and even less chance of me dealing with a person who even gives me the impression of TRYING to get over on me. I came out ahead on the item, He feels he did great on it too I'm sure. But the main impression he gave me is one of enthusiasm. If he could hang out on here long enough and read widely enough those dewy spots behind his ears should dry quite nicely. as for the attention thing...

Hi there Scott,
While I agree with a lot of what you said... The seller didn't PERSUE Stephen right? He didn't force the sale. You can agree to that, no?
Stephen made an offer, and BOTH accepted? Correct? Where's the personal responsibility of the buyer??
You said "this board should live up to a higher standard"... but for just the seller?? Or both the seller AND buyer? If what you said is true and you believe it.... Stephen's "higher standard" would be accepting he made a bad judgment call.
Apparently, you seem to think it only goes one way....
I could be wrong, and if I am, I apologize, but that seems to be what your post says.
And we agree that Stephen's enthusiasm is a positive trait for both himself, and the hobby.
I wish both parties could rectify this situation amicably, maybe a partial refund would be fair?
But that's up to them.

Regards,
Brent

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

OK, so he was definitely a little quick with the thread, but I HATE when guys say "any chance of reaching an agreement is now dead" That's a total copout. Either you'll give a refund or you won't. Clearly you won't. There is no way I can conscience that. As with most situations both parties bear some blame, but ultimately it can be made right at no loss (hit him up for shipping if you like) so what GOOD reason can you have for not issuing a refund???

Steven, this is the real world and not the Ultimate Trade Up. When grown men make deals, there are winners and losers. Every person on this board has suffered a touch of buyers remorse or felt like they over paid for a card, myself included. The difference is that most of us deal with it and move on. Certainly, running around trashing people is the way you choose to handle it. I'm a bad person because you feel you overpaid for a card. If that's way you want it and you want to sing about it on the internet to the net54 members, feel free. However, any hope of remediation (a partial refund, a better deal on another card, etc.) is now completely out the window despite being completely realistic less than 14 hours ago. And you actually have no one but yourself to than




Right we had that situation occur previousuly the old 'i would of given you a refund but because of your attitude or whatever reason i am not now'

If somebody says that it means they never were going to give a refund. I do agree that it was too quick to trash somebody on a thread after a quick deadline. However if i was the seller i would of said, Refund given and by the way i wasonly emailed a request for a refund it appears 3 hours ago and i just read my email only to find out i am being trashed in 3 hours.

I have refunded the money like i would have even before a trashy thread was made against me had i been given more than an hour to receive the email etc.....