Bad Experience with Fellow Member

[Timbegs]

First off, I am quite impressed with the number of people who offer their opinion of a private transaction that happened between two members having heard one side of the story. I think 53 posts and 2000+ views is pretty amazing. What you will hear from me is what actually happened. You are aware of some of what has been said so far (at least by me, though not by Steven). I have every message Steven sent to me, as well - time stamped. None will be posted publicly simply because I don't think that is good etiquette or precedent for board members. However, I will paraphrase. Form your own opinions.

My name is Tim Begley - this is the rule, I believe, right? Post your full name. I'm not quite positive you have to when defending your reputation as opposed to attacking another's but I will since I have nothing to hide.

So here's some relevant information on me. First, I have no professional experience as a seller, dealer, auctioneer, graded or manufacturer of baseball cards. Occasionally, I make the hard choice to sell off some of my cards to buy more. As such, I have only two transactions on here (both sales) and one piece of bad behavior, which absolutely no one would even know about unless I mentioned it. However, since I'm honest, I'll start there. I snapped at a guy who inquired on a lot last night in a PM. I shouldn't have and I apologized. I was having a rough night and won't bore you with details. (And, if he's among the 2000+ reading, you know who you are and I truly am sorry.) As for the two transactions prior to this, one was for a 53 Bowman Campanella SGC 50 and the other for an ungraded 1968 Topps Posters Mickey Mantle box cut out. In both cases, the buyers sought me out with their bid - essentially setting the price - and I agreed. I guess it won't be hard to figure out who bought what now will it.

So, here's the original lot; just seems odd that it's not been posted in this thread yet. Or I just didn't see it.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=238614

After my friend gave me a few bucks for the Pin Up and the Jay, I sold a 1956 Topps #135 card to Steven for $250. We arrived at this price because he said he'd pay 200 against my 300 offer and I suggested we could meet in the middle if he really wanted the card other wise I'll stay and hope for the best. At NO POINT was price contingent on grade; what was very important was that he be able to sell it for more money. I clearly stated I think it would grade a 3 but I am not a professional and I offer no guarantee. I packed it well (my cost) and shipped it with tracking for free (my cost). My listing was posted for all to see. I wasn't trying to get one over on anyone. Since I don't have a scanner, I take a picture with my phone. So, knowing the picture sucks and is often not even facing the right direction because I can't even post it right, I do what most people don't and provided an accurate description. Every flaw you see on that card is in the description. Had he asked for more pictures, he'd have gotten more cell phone shots so I don't think it would have made much of a difference.

Now, today I get an email at 10 am, wherein a full refund was demanded and the reason given was 'I am not going to make enough money flipping this card.' I do not believe that to be valid reason and told him, quite politely, to merely sell the card for $250 and he'd have his money back. Since that is around what I paid, I think he can get it too with no problem. I walk away from my computer and go about my day, head off to a retirement party and get home about two hours ago to find...this thread and two other messages.

The first message basically says, I am giving you one hour to respond to this message before I go trash your reputation. The second is I am going to now tarnish your reputation. Shortly thereafter, this thread is created.

To sum up, he got no response to an arbitrary deadline he set for that I was unaware of and then proceeded to create this thread - about which I could not care less - in an attempt to bully me and publicly shame me into giving him a refund.

So here's my response to this thread now that the truth has been told:

Steven, this is the real world and not the Ultimate Trade Up. When grown men make deals, there are winners and losers. Every person on this board has suffered a touch of buyers remorse or felt like they over paid for a card, myself included. The difference is that most of us deal with it and move on. Certainly, running around trashing people is the way you choose to handle it. I'm a bad person because you feel you overpaid for a card. If that's way you want it and you want to sing about it on the internet to the net54 members, feel free. However, any hope of remediation (a partial refund, a better deal on another card, etc.) is now completely out the window despite being completely realistic less than 14 hours ago. And you actually have no one but yourself to thank.

As for the peanut gallery, have at it guys. Team Steve or Team Tim? Somebody print some T-shirts up!

If any moderator wants to verify this info, PM me and I'll give you my log on and password information and you can check every word of what I have said. Steven, please don't ever contact me again and good luck in your trade up.

[Bpm0014]

The right thing to do is issue a refund. No questions asked. Although it is caveat emptor here, this board is extremely successful because all of us can buy and sell things KNOWING that there is an unwritten code of honor that the deal will go thru and all parties will be happy.

By not issuing a refund (regardless of the reason), you have single handedly jeapordized everything that this board stands for. I have completed too numerous to count deals on here and I always felt safe sending hundreds (or at times thousands) of dollars. I am not being dramatic, but I no longer feel secure. None of us can. Do the right thing and issue a refund. Or you should be banned for life. Regardless of whether who is right or who is wrong.

[gnaz01]

Tim,

If the OP bought the card under the assumption that "it could be a 3" and it clearly isn't, you are at fault.

[Leon]

I have to agree. While I don't want to get involved in deals on the BST, I don't like the way this deal was handled, at all. The description was wrong and the pictures were small. The flippant last response was all I could take.
Tim (hi Tim) will give a refund or not be on the BST any longer. This board is not "business as usual". If you give a poor (wrong) description and tiny pics that don't show the defects, well then you should give a timely refund or go someplace that is "business as usual." This needs to be a place where you can count on a friendly and good transaction, or if there is a problem and it's addressed right away, it should be taken care of fairly. (and I agree the seller should have been given a bit more time to deal with it, but a return is warranted regardless)

ps...I think it was the "there are winners and losers" comment that really threw me. Really? Winners and losers on our BST? No, not.

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

The right thing to do is issue a refund. No questions asked. Although it is caveat emptor here, this board is extremely successful because all of us can buy and sell things KNOWING that there is an unwritten code of honor that the deal will go thru and all parties will be happy.

By not issuing a refund (regardless of the reason), you have single handedly jeapordized everything that this board stands for. I have completed too numerous to count deals on here and I always felt safe sending hundreds (or at times thousands) of dollars. I am not being dramatic, but I no longer feel secure. None of us can. Do the right thing and issue a refund. Or you should be banned for life. Regardless of whether who is right or who is wrong.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Instead of typing out that treatise justifying yourself, you should have just said, I'm new here, I didn't understand the way this community works, I'll issue the refund but I won't deal with Stephen again.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Instead of typing out that treatise justifying yourself, you should have just said, I'm new here, I didn't understand the way this community works, I'll issue the refund but I won't deal with Stephen again.

So is seller banned yet?

[Fred]

Quick question -

Did the buyer ever ask the seller about a return policy?

If the seller is stating the truth about the buyer then I believe that providing an hour to respond to an email message is a bit of an ambitious request. Sometimes I go days without checking my personal email.

[toledo_mudhen]

OK then.... I read all 9 pages of thread but still not sure why. Kinda like watchin a train wreck I guess.

FWIW - the SGC Grading scale - I could see how one might call it a 2 (and possibly a 3)

40 VG 3 90/10 or better centering, corners more rounded--but not excessive, stronger creasing may exist. Poorer focus, registration, and discoloration, and staining are more noticeable.

30 GOOD 2 Centered 90/10 or better. This card usually exhibits one or more of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tear, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss.

20 FAIR 1.5 Centered 90/10 or better. This card usually exhibits several of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tears, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss, a small portion of the card may be missing.

10 POOR 1 This card usually exhibits many of these characteristics: heavy print spots, heavy crease(s), pinhole(s), color or focus imperfections or discoloration, surface scuffing or tears, rounded and/or fraying corners, ink or pencil marking(s), and lack of all or some original gloss, small portions of the card may be missing.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it was the "there are winners and losers" comment that really threw me. Really?

This one kind of threw me a bit as well. Good deals are when both sides are happy/satisfied (IMO). Understanding all the emotion that is involved here - POV from each side, what started, who said what, who's right, etc. - I keep coming back to this - - was it/is it really worth all of this to not just refund a $250 card (you feel confident in reselling) and move on?

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

The right thing to do is issue a refund. No questions asked. Although it is caveat emptor here, this board is extremely successful because all of us can buy and sell things KNOWING that there is an unwritten code of honor that the deal will go thru and all parties will be happy.

I read through the eleven pages thus far, and I find myself agreeing with your assessment. We all occasionally slip up and make mistakes, professionally and day-to-day. I flubbed up my first transaction on this board--however, I apologized and tried my best to make things right with the seller. While the transaction didn't go as we both had originally planned, we moved on and we both continue on N54 as businessmen and fellow collectors to this day.
This is why I feel this transaction didn't go through and left a bad taste in many mouths--neither the buyer nor the seller provided any "give"; it was all "take". While this can show what collecting is like to some people in the real world, it isn't an accurate representation of N54, which, from my experience, has been a board where the majority of collectors try to make deals which leave both parties as winners.

-NJ Dunkin

[bobbyw8469]

I agree with what someone else said. That whole transaction just screams trouble. A buyer looking to take advantage of a seller, and a seller looking to take advantage of a buyer. Both parties looking to shark the other one. What happened to the days where a trade was done that could make both parties feel good?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I agree with what someone else said. That whole transaction just screams trouble. A buyer looking to take advantage of a seller, and a seller looking to take advantage of a buyer. Both parties looking to shark the other one. What happened to the days where a trade was done that could make both parties feel good?

Tim B
Banned

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 126
Default Enjoy it - this will be my only post



The transaction was doomed in a lot of ways. We have a buyer thats part of the 'im quitting the net54 board' club dealing with a 'this is my last post on net54' club........those are two clubs that shouldnt be trading cards....like the Sharks and the Jets..


P.S. "Im leaving the hobby club' could also be tough club to trade with especially (not saying all but a red flag) when they havent left the hobby and continue to be very very active....and there is also the 'i dont care if i am banned by saying...." club as well.

[cammb]

I think the seller described the card perfectly. Because he suggested that it might be a 3 doesn't make it so. When he states that there are two creases on the card, that tells you that a 3 it is not. How many times have you sent in a card to be graded and it comes back not only a grade lower than you expected but two grades lower!!. This is buyers remorse and nothing else, IMO.

[dclarkraiders]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I agree with what someone else said. That whole transaction just screams trouble. A buyer looking to take advantage of a seller, and a seller looking to take advantage of a buyer. Both parties looking to shark the other one. What happened to the days where a trade was done that could make both parties feel good?

+1

[timzcardz]

I don't see the problem.

Why doesn't he ultimately trade it up for a "3"?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

I don't see the problem.

Why doesn't he ultimately trade it up for a "3"?

Yes....I laughed

[Gradedcardman]

Originally Posted by Timbegs

First off, I am quite impressed with the number of people who offer their opinion of a private transaction that happened between two members having heard one side of the story. I think 53 posts and 2000+ views is pretty amazing. What you will hear from me is what actually happened. You are aware of some of what has been said so far (at least by me, though not by Steven). I have every message Steven sent to me, as well - time stamped. None will be posted publicly simply because I don't think that is good etiquette or precedent for board members. However, I will paraphrase. Form your own opinions.

My name is Tim Begley - this is the rule, I believe, right? Post your full name. I'm not quite positive you have to when defending your reputation as opposed to attacking another's but I will since I have nothing to hide.

So here's some relevant information on me. First, I have no professional experience as a seller, dealer, auctioneer, graded or manufacturer of baseball cards. Occasionally, I make the hard choice to sell off some of my cards to buy more. As such, I have only two transactions on here (both sales) and one piece of bad behavior, which absolutely no one would even know about unless I mentioned it. However, since I'm honest, I'll start there. I snapped at a guy who inquired on a lot last night in a PM. I shouldn't have and I apologized. I was having a rough night and won't bore you with details. (And, if he's among the 2000+ reading, you know who you are and I truly am sorry.) As for the two transactions prior to this, one was for a 53 Bowman Campanella SGC 50 and the other for an ungraded 1968 Topps Posters Mickey Mantle box cut out. In both cases, the buyers sought me out with their bid - essentially setting the price - and I agreed. I guess it won't be hard to figure out who bought what now will it.

So, here's the original lot; just seems odd that it's not been posted in this thread yet. Or I just didn't see it.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=238614

After my friend gave me a few bucks for the Pin Up and the Jay, I sold a 1956 Topps #135 card to Steven for $250. We arrived at this price because he said he'd pay 200 against my 300 offer and I suggested we could meet in the middle if he really wanted the card other wise I'll stay and hope for the best. At NO POINT was price contingent on grade; what was very important was that he be able to sell it for more money. I clearly stated I think it would grade a 3 but I am not a professional and I offer no guarantee. I packed it well (my cost) and shipped it with tracking for free (my cost). My listing was posted for all to see. I wasn't trying to get one over on anyone. Since I don't have a scanner, I take a picture with my phone. So, knowing the picture sucks and is often not even facing the right direction because I can't even post it right, I do what most people don't and provided an accurate description. Every flaw you see on that card is in the description. Had he asked for more pictures, he'd have gotten more cell phone shots so I don't think it would have made much of a difference.

Now, today I get an email at 10 am, wherein a full refund was demanded and the reason given was 'I am not going to make enough money flipping this card.' I do not believe that to be valid reason and told him, quite politely, to merely sell the card for $250 and he'd have his money back. Since that is around what I paid, I think he can get it too with no problem. I walk away from my computer and go about my day, head off to a retirement party and get home about two hours ago to find...this thread and two other messages.

The first message basically says, I am giving you one hour to respond to this message before I go trash your reputation. The second is I am going to now tarnish your reputation. Shortly thereafter, this thread is created.

To sum up, he got no response to an arbitrary deadline he set for that I was unaware of and then proceeded to create this thread - about which I could not care less - in an attempt to bully me and publicly shame me into giving him a refund.

So here's my response to this thread now that the truth has been told:

Steven, this is the real world and not the Ultimate Trade Up. When grown men make deals, there are winners and losers. Every person on this board has suffered a touch of buyers remorse or felt like they over paid for a card, myself included. The difference is that most of us deal with it and move on. Certainly, running around trashing people is the way you choose to handle it. I'm a bad person because you feel you overpaid for a card. If that's way you want it and you want to sing about it on the internet to the net54 members, feel free. However, any hope of remediation (a partial refund, a better deal on another card, etc.) is now completely out the window despite being completely realistic less than 14 hours ago. And you actually have no one but yourself to thank.

As for the peanut gallery, have at it guys. Team Steve or Team Tim? Somebody print some T-shirts up!

If any moderator wants to verify this info, PM me and I'll give you my log on and password information and you can check every word of what I have said. Steven, please don't ever contact me again and good luck in your trade up.

Did the card get sent for grading or again was it an assumption it would not grade a 3. Again the real world means do your due diligence and let the chips fall where they may. Shit happens. Move on.